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Speed Skating Forum Most of the discussions in this forum will be about inline speed skating but discussions about ice speed skating and quad roller speed skating are also welcome.

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Old October 27th, 2015, 06:14 AM   #1
LaterSkater
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Default Bont Jet: new versions vs. the old

Comparing the recent versions of the Bont Jet inline boot with the 2010 version, what has changed? Have there been any changes in the material other than aesthetic upgrades? Perhaps, modification of the material composition and its layout have been updated?

This is my first post. I selected my name based upon my late entry to this fine forum which has quite an impressive history. I have been educated by reading the posts over the past month or two. Plus, I am transitioning from fitness to speed while later in life. Also, I'm slow, so truly a LaterSkater at this time.

I appreciate your feedback.
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Old October 27th, 2015, 01:19 PM   #2
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Welcome to the forums!

From what I read, "Updated over the years to be even more supportive and comfortable than before"

Going into details though:
-Added Front TPU Bumper
-Tougher outer skin
-0.3cm lower cut
-Neoprene rolled cuff with tendon pillow
-Air vents above the toes.
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Old October 27th, 2015, 06:10 PM   #3
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I think they've also raised the arches at some point.

I had the old Sharkies and the old Zero's before the Jet in 2013 or 2014. The Jet's had less compression around the ankles, I could never get them to feel tight any higher than the bottom of my ankle bone. But the archiles support pillow things annoyed me; they didn't particularly support, but certainly rubbed.

To be fair, I also have the same issues with my custom Z's. The new customization for the Z's give you a lot of options, now, though. More than when I ordered my custom boots.

The Enduro is comfy, though. Lots of padding in the ankles.
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Old October 27th, 2015, 07:56 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swolltitan View Post
Welcome to the forums!

From what I read, "Updated over the years to be even more supportive and comfortable than before"

Going into details though:
-Added Front TPU Bumper
-Tougher outer skin
-0.3cm lower cut
-Neoprene rolled cuff with tendon pillow
-Air vents above the toes.
Thanks. This is helpful. It certainly sounds as if Bont has made a few improvements in recent years.
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Old October 27th, 2015, 08:02 PM   #5
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Default Jet vs Enduro

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Originally Posted by matguy View Post
I think they've also raised the arches at some point.

I had the old Sharkies and the old Zero's before the Jet in 2013 or 2014. The Jet's had less compression around the ankles, I could never get them to feel tight any higher than the bottom of my ankle bone. But the archiles support pillow things annoyed me; they didn't particularly support, but certainly rubbed.

To be fair, I also have the same issues with my custom Z's. The new customization for the Z's give you a lot of options, now, though. More than when I ordered my custom boots.

The Enduro is comfy, though. Lots of padding in the ankles.
Matguy, this brings up another comparison: the Jet vs the Enduro.
I asked Bont that question, and they said that the Jet has two layers of carbon in some places while the Enduro has one. Hence, it sounds as if the Jet has a higher percentage of carbon. I should have also asked them to list the weights of each type of boot.

If a boot has a higher percentage of carbon, would that also make it more comfortable?
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Old October 27th, 2015, 10:09 PM   #6
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If a boot has a higher percentage of carbon, would that also make it more comfortable?
It means it is more stiff, but that doesn't necessarily translate to "comfort". Comfort depends on fit and the amount of padding, as well as the stiffness of the boot. Many people (will) find that having a more supple boot with a little more "give" to be more comfortable, especially on surfaces that are less than silky smooth.
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Old October 27th, 2015, 11:51 PM   #7
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I've hand felt both, but only skated on a Jet. The Enduro certainly has a lot more padding.

Between the more and less carbon content, basically it takes more fiberglass to achieve similar stiffness to less carbon, by weight and thickness. Meaning that to get the same stiffness, fiberglass will be thicker and heavier than good carbon fiber. From the same boot maker you'll generally get somewhere in the middle, meaning the higher carbon content boot will be both lighter and stiffer, but not a huge amount of either.

Like evilzzz says, it'll depend a lot on fit; though it's really the padding in the Enduro you'll notice in comfort more than the shell make-up. Also the weight difference between the two is both the extra fiberglass it takes to stiffen it up and the weight of the extra padding.

The main goal of the Enduro (from what I understood) was to make a more comfortable entry level speed boot that's still low cut. All too often entry level skaters just can't deal with leaning to skate while dealing with the foot pain that comes from less than ideal form and a hard boot. So they quit quickly. This should make for an easier transition in to the sport where they can learn to skate first, deal with the less padding of a more elite boot once their form is in order and can benefit more from the less isolation between their foot and the hard boot.

This can benefit both new skaters and people that have been doing it for a while and just need something a bit more comfortable without paying custom prices. If this came out a year ago I probably would have gotten them instead of going full custom (or at least tried them for a while, first.)

The Enduro basically replaced the Cheetah as their lowest price boot (aside from the Alpha), but they're a much better boot (but also cost about $30 more.) While they're a "lower" model boot than the Jet (by $11 and apparently a layer of carbon), I see them as more of a comfort option than a quality difference.
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Old October 28th, 2015, 03:37 AM   #8
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Thank you, Evilzzz and Matguy, for the useful advice. Especially since I will be purchasing my first pair of speed boots, it sounds like the Enduro would be the safest choice for me.

For the past five years, I have been skating on K2 Radical 90's, which are too high and too soft. Perhaps, the Jet could be a bit too radical of a change.

I skate mostly outdoors, although I recently began practicing with an inline team on a short track. Therefore, I will likely buy the 195 mount. Also, I'm practicing with a different team which ice skates on short track, so I will likely buy an ice blade which would fit the 195 mount.
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Old October 28th, 2015, 04:12 AM   #9
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LaterSkater, I went from a Radical 90 to the Jets with 110s. It was an adjustment, but not something that was impossible to overcome. I found it worked pretty well overall. The newer Jet is a nice boot. Mine were great even though I did not get the fit right as the boots were too big. I am on Zs now, and love them. They took some molding to get the fit just right, but beyond that they have been solid boots.
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Old October 28th, 2015, 12:06 PM   #10
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I'd like to recommend against trying to make one boot serve both inline and ice. While it is possible to do this... it can be a real pain in the behind swapping frames/blades all the time and you increase the risk of screwing up the boot's mounting threads and other unneeded wear & tear. Also... you increase the chances of not getting your set-up the same each time you swap, causing performance issues. Thirdly, an ice boot needs to provide a different type of support to your foot if you are doing more than just slow laps for the heck of it. My wife and I each have 3 different complete setups, inline, ST ice and LT ice. The needs are so different we wouldn't think of trying to make one boot do anything other than its specialty.

edit: a soft, cushy boot may be a very poor choice for ST ice. You need a very intimate fit with no slop between foot and boot if you want to have any control. If not... you may as well put blades on a pair of bedroom slippers.
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Old October 29th, 2015, 05:44 AM   #11
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I'd like to recommend against trying to make one boot serve both inline and ice. While it is possible to do this... it can be a real pain in the behind swapping frames/blades all the time and you increase the risk of screwing up the boot's mounting threads and other unneeded wear & tear. Also... you increase the chances of not getting your set-up the same each time you swap, causing performance issues. Thirdly, an ice boot needs to provide a different type of support to your foot if you are doing more than just slow laps for the heck of it. My wife and I each have 3 different complete setups, inline, ST ice and LT ice. The needs are so different we wouldn't think of trying to make one boot do anything other than its specialty.

edit: a soft, cushy boot may be a very poor choice for ST ice. You need a very intimate fit with no slop between foot and boot if you want to have any control. If not... you may as well put blades on a pair of bedroom slippers.
Thanks bjvircks. That is good to know. In that case, I'll probably stick with the loaner boots which the ice team supplies.....until I am ready to spring for a pair of ice skates after upgrading my inlines.

As you and the Donnybrook have suggested, there are disadvantages of a softer boot. Mostly, I skate outdoors for distances of 15 - 20 miles. Perhaps, a softer boot would suffice better for those distances. However, the firmer boot would seem to be more suitable for any ST training which I do with the inline team. My K2 Radicals certainly have tons of slop, and I am ready to move away from them. I could buy a pair of Jets along with EZ Fits, using the EZ's when I need them while I develop form.
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Old October 29th, 2015, 12:52 PM   #12
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My K2 Radicals certainly have tons of slop, and I am ready to move away from them. I could buy a pair of Jets along with EZ Fits, using the EZ's when I need them while I develop form.
Do it, Jets are great for the money. As long as you get the right size you should love them indoors and outdoors, they are comfy and stiff. Heat mold them if you need and/or put on EZ fits and you will be good to go.
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Old October 29th, 2015, 01:04 PM   #13
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Putting ezy fits in to add comfort with the plan you can twke them out to get better control won't be the answer, yes they add padding but when you remove them the boot will be sloppy.

If you are older and still learning its unlikely you will be breaking land speed records so going for comfort and enjoying your skating is the option I would recommend. Regardless if you get a jet or endouro (or another brand) you will more than likely get an urge to upgrade at some stage within a couple of years and you can go for a stiffer performance based boot then.
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Old October 29th, 2015, 07:25 PM   #14
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Putting ezy fits in to add comfort with the plan you can twke them out to get better control won't be the answer, yes they add padding but when you remove them the boot will be sloppy.

If you are older and still learning its unlikely you will be breaking land speed records so going for comfort and enjoying your skating is the option I would recommend. Regardless if you get a jet or endouro (or another brand) you will more than likely get an urge to upgrade at some stage within a couple of years and you can go for a stiffer performance based boot then.
Isn't it possible to re-mold the boots after removing the EZ Fits?
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Old October 30th, 2015, 04:17 AM   #15
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I'm going to comment here with my thoughts about remolding speed skates... but I must confess that I have no practical exposure to remolding SKATES. I do have a fair amount of experience with remolding what for all practical purposes could be described as very high performance custom ski boots with custom liners specifically designed to be remolded a small number of times.

Due to the comparatively thin padding used for speed skates and the stiff carbon or carbon/glass shell... I would guess that remolding in an attempt to take out slop caused by initial molding with ezfit or too thick socks would not yield very good results. The initial molding 'packs out' the compressible liner/padding to conform to the foot. I don't think the liner/padding re-expands with later heating, just softens. So... I suspect you'd need to really super tighten the laces in an attempt to squish the already compressed material around enough to fill the gap left by the ezfit.

Of course, I could be way off base here. Certain brands (or certain models) may well re-expand enough with subsequent re-heatings. Like I said, my practical experience with skates is very limited. I'd certainly like to hear from others one way or another.

I've been skating a size 42 2010 inline Jet since 2011 with very satisfactory results in terms of stiffness, performance and comfort. I'm a 59 yo male, 6ft tall, 190 lbs. I'm considering getting 'better' boots, not because I need them but because I suspect I'm coming down with a case of SEDS (skating equipment deficiency syndrome)
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Old October 30th, 2015, 05:02 AM   #16
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I am curious what ice boot you are using for short track? Inline are simply a little more forgiving, and typically have more padding. If you are skating short track on a Bont club boots, the jet will feel more/less the same, just with a slightly short cuff, and a bit more padding.

You can easily use a Bont boot (inline or ice for either ice or inline as the top cuffs do not vary that significantly when comparing entry level models like the jet/patriot-c boots). The mountings can cause a bit of compatibility issues. With inline 195mm separations there are very few blades that will accommodate that spacing, all else is std 165mm. That said, inline had moved to 195mm mounting for some time so finding compatible larger wheel frame options with 165mm mounting is also very limited. So, in these scenarios, one has to pick their battles (or preference if you will) re: which sport takes priority, ice or inline. But both can be achieved using 1 boot swapping out blades or inline frame & wheels. Many start down this road (in hopes to save a little $) then find out soon enough it is easier having the 2 separate skates to use for each receptive sport.

If you re using a K2 rad, and also doing short track, you're ready for a low cut inline boot. Ice is far more demanding than inline, in respect to technical ability, I suspect you will find the transition should be fairly easy.
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Old October 30th, 2015, 07:10 AM   #17
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I don't know about the newer ones, but I'm *still* skating on my 2007 Jets! I suspect they have stretched out a bit after the first few years, because even after heat molding they feel half a size too big. But that's made them my comfort skate. I did A2A on them this year, not a hint of foot damage.

Actually, my feet really like them (not necessarily true for everyone): I did a 100K skate in them the week after I go them, having only heat-molded one boot.

You didn't talk about what frame you will use. Some ppl would recomend a shorter (12.8 or ever 12.6) frame with 100mm wheels. Others might say hi-lo, or even 4x110 right away. The shorter frame will certainly ease the transition though.
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Old October 30th, 2015, 07:11 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Isn't it possible to re-mold the boots after removing the EZ Fits?
Just about impossible to make a boot smaller.

Boots seem to get a bit sloppy over time as the padding compresses and even sorting this out is difficult.
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Old October 30th, 2015, 05:56 PM   #19
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You can add a thin insole into a boot that is slightly too big, and that will take up much of the slack space and effectively make it about 1/4 size smaller than it actually is.
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Old November 1st, 2015, 01:44 AM   #20
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I don't know about the newer ones, but I'm *still* skating on my 2007 Jets! I suspect they have stretched out a bit after the first few years, because even after heat molding they feel half a size too big. But that's made them my comfort skate. I did A2A on them this year, not a hint of foot damage.

Actually, my feet really like them (not necessarily true for everyone): I did a 100K skate in them the week after I go them, having only heat-molded one boot.

You didn't talk about what frame you will use. Some ppl would recomend a shorter (12.8 or ever 12.6) frame with 100mm wheels. Others might say hi-lo, or even 4x110 right away. The shorter frame will certainly ease the transition though.
That's amazing that you skated 100 km one week after you received your Jets. Were you skating on other speed skates before buying them?

I will likely begin with 100 mm wheels in order to smooth the transition. Plus, there are enough hills where I skate, so I'm not sure if I want to even consider 110's. Since I am doing a bit of training with a team which mostly skates indoors, I will likely buy a 195 mount with a 12.6" frame. The short track training is helping me to learn crossover turns in addition to greatly improving my form which needs a lot of work.
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