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Old June 10th, 2007, 03:02 AM   #21
excelsk8
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Boaz, this would give you a good idea of what you are going up against!

check it out and tell me how close to this you feel you are!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgC7nJaIJXc
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Old June 10th, 2007, 03:39 PM   #22
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colopatinador,
There is something about what you are saying on FIRS investment
BUT
I think that the point you are missing is that the fact that Boaz will participate in the World championship along with all the world's elite skaters, will give a grate push to the skating sport in Israel, far beyond any other investment FIRS can do.
Like Boaz said, in 2005 I participated in the Berlin marathon, I think that the best thing that come out of that race (other than the great fun I had) was that this was the start of the Israeli speedskating. My friend Adam wrote a great report about our race and people wanted to do it too. One of the things I worked a lot to explain to other skaters was that "what was your place" is not interesting, I had a lot fun and a great experience regardless of my position versus the other - this is what important for most skaters, and you can't have elite skaters if you don't have broad layer of skaters like me - ones that will never be pro but investing a lot time in the sport. For such, seeing Boaz skating with elite (even if far behind them) is a great boost.

There is no doubt we have great deal to learn and all of us understand it and I am sure that in 2008 Boaz will do much better than he will do this year. Hopefully in few years, he or the younger skaters who looks up at him will be top class elite skaters.
Till than, all we can do is try to be at as many world events as we can, organize our own events and try to learn from other countries and world class couches, all of that we are doing

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Old June 10th, 2007, 05:14 PM   #23
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Eyal,

You definitely have a point in that you are "building a house" and any materials added to make it raise will be welcomed. Most countries are engaged in the same process. Some countries are more advanced along the contruction process and some other a bit more back and thats ok. At one point, what I hope for the sport is that all countries have a fully constructed house!! This process reminds me of the Iranian lady speedskaters who had to compete in their typical daily attire at the World Championships last year in Anyang. While they were not close to being competitive, they were present and contributed by that mere fact.

However, for many of us to see Boazarad's message impliying that he might do better than 1:10 at World Championships we think that is a bit of an overbite. It shows the deep unexperience that exists in your camp. If the attitude was " were going to WC and we are going to fight to do our best", everybody would be very supportive and good wishing!

Then the good wishes would change from Good Luck (try to stay alive!!) to Good Luck (man that's cool he's going!!).

As builders of your "new house", I think you should also worry about public opinion because I think that is also an important aspect not only of your skating program but also representative of your country.
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Old June 10th, 2007, 08:49 PM   #24
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Maybe it's a good idea for Boaz (and other Israeli skaters going to Worlds?) to get in contact with skaters from other "small" or "starting" skating countries that went through the same.
And I think I just happen to know someone worth talking to! Try to get in contact with Gavin Pollock through the LondonSkaters Speed Team Forum. He's a great guy and I think he will be happy to give you info and insider stories that could be valuable to you.
If you want I'll contact him for you and PM the contact info to you if he's ok with it.

Cheers,
Andy.
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Old June 10th, 2007, 10:01 PM   #25
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i'm writing this off wy phone, so I'll have to be brief, and split messages. our attitude is definatly in the spirit of "were going to the worlds and were going to fight to do our best" as pancho said.
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Old June 10th, 2007, 10:15 PM   #26
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if i wasn't clear in my previous posts, we really have no idea what to expect on race day. we can hope for a 01:10 score, we can hope for a 00:59 score. we'll also be happy just to participate. personally, I'll be happy just to qualify or better yet,
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Old June 10th, 2007, 10:20 PM   #27
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not to be last.
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Old June 11th, 2007, 09:06 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by excelsk8 View Post
Boaz, this would give you a good idea of what you are going up against!

check it out and tell me how close to this you feel you are!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgC7nJaIJXc
crawl, walk, run, train, train, train race. Please note that I come from other endurance sports background. excelsk8 has a good view of what an elite athlete looks like.
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Old June 11th, 2007, 11:32 PM   #29
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colopatinador, I think that the point you are missing is that the fact that Boaz will participate in the World championship along with all the world's elite skaters, will give a grate push to the skating sport in Israel, far beyond any other investment FIRS can do.
Really? Please, let us know how would that "boost" come: Is Boaz mere participation at Cali bring up a media frenzy in the whole country, mutating him overnight into a sporting celebrity? Will new skating schools for children and adults be founded suddenly all around the place? Perhaps with knowledgeable coaches that will grow from urethane trees?

I'm not saying this is bad at all, my point (and Pancho's and Francisco's) is that this should be a LEARNING experience for the israely skaters going to Colombia instead of a question of expectations of some sort... Because as for competition goes, not being last is the only realistic objective that can be achieved by them... And only if skaters from Nigeria, Mongolia, Haiti or the likes really show up!
Hopefully the experience gained will serve the israeli skating comunity, and in 2008 I'll sit down with Boaz in Gijón and talk about his first ever experience with the world's elite, and what it did to contribute to Israel's skating growth.
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Old June 12th, 2007, 04:32 AM   #30
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100% Boaz, I aplaud your attitude, as stated before I love to see and read your love for this sport, I like to see that you are going to worlds, this is the first set of steps in the right direction if your country ever wants to be one of the top countries, for now knnowing what you are up against is pretty good!
I wish you go there and have some people to actually feel like you competed, if you have any questions at all don't hesitate to contact me, I've been speed skating for a long time and know a lot about the sport, I am also a cerified coach, so any and all the help I can give you I will!
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Old June 12th, 2007, 11:14 AM   #31
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no matter what, I wish you all the best. Safe Skating & Good Luck!
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Old June 12th, 2007, 12:11 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colopatinador View Post
Really? Please, let us know how would that "boost" come: Is Boaz mere participation at Cali bring up a media frenzy in the whole country, mutating him overnight into a sporting celebrity? Will new skating schools for children and adults be founded suddenly all around the place? Perhaps with knowledgeable coaches that will grow from urethane trees?
Sending an Israeli to world championship at any sport may very well hit the sport news.
There are a lot of people in Israel which has skates and doesn't even know there is something called speedskating non the less, there is world championship in this field.
There are many good athletes which doesn't skate and could switch to skating if they realize they may get to world serious.
The reason there aren't many schools for children is not lack of founding, it is lack of coaches, resulting from lack of skaters.
As for knowledgeable coaches? taking part in the worlds will sure initiate the contacts needed to bring them to Israel (this is not the only way of course, and we are working along two other ways simultaneously).
Non of it will happen overnight, not due to any of our deeds nor due to any money spending, it will take few years, but we'll get there.

LEARNING is no doubt the main issue of this trip.
Expectations? is it so bad to have them? I guess that we have learned that holding your expectations to your self is better than state them out load, since it might be conceived by other as arrogant rather than as honesty
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Old June 12th, 2007, 08:20 PM   #33
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I don't think it's as serious as arrogance versus honesty.

It's the simple "under promise / over deliver" advice and it's particularly prudent when lack of experience makes predicting outcomes risky.

I know for myself and I bet everyone here who's ever competed has dreamed of having results bigger than what they really believed was possible. The dream helps fuel improvement. But you still want to keep things in perspective and leave yourself plenty of room to overachieve in the eyes of others.

I think of possible near-term results on a scale something like:

1) Dream result (almost certainly unattaintable in the near term)
2) Really great result
3) Expected result
4) Slightly dissappointing result
5) I don't want to talk about it result

I dream about (1); really hope for (2); and probably would tell everyone else that I'm shooting for just a little better than (3). And I really am incredibly thrilled if I come near (2).

The more experienced I am at a sport, familiar with a particular competitive environment, knowledgable about my specific competitors, confident in my own conditioning level, etc the closer (2)-(4) are together and the more honest my assessment with others with regard to my expectations. This also makes is easier to disappoint myself since a slightly worse result false below my expecations.

(1) is always way out there; dreaming big is easy and doesn't hurt anything

I think most of the points in this thread if taken as constructive feedback meant to help (even if bluntly direct) basically just acknowledge that competitors at Worlds are amazing, they'll all be at their bests, the environment itself is probably very intimidating, and Boazarad has zero experience in matching up against any of them even in a smaller event or off of their peeks. In my experience, one thing that's scary but also really fun about competitive sports is that no matter how good you get at one level of the sport and how many milestones you reach; the competitors at the next level always seem impossibly good .... at first! Unless you're already dominating worlds; but that's never been me so someone else would have to chime in

This doesn't mean give up; it doesn't mean assume you can't beat a 1:30 marathon time (or a 1:15 or whatever); and it doesn't mean don't set goals.

It means that it's very prudent to keep your public goals very basic, keep your own expectations reasonable to maximize the likely educational benefits of the experience, and leave yourself a lot of space to exceed everyone's expectations either now or in the future.

And dreaming big is allowed

Again good luck!

-Jeff
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Old June 12th, 2007, 08:47 PM   #34
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What Jeff said!
We are not posting here to make you guys feel bad... We are here to try and help! This thread is only positive, any way I look at it.
Now do you want to talk to Gav (started in a small club in London <England hardly had a speedskating scene>, was at Worlds a few years later) or not?

All the best at Worlds, and I hope to meet you in Berlin for the marathon!

Cheers,
Andy.
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Old June 12th, 2007, 11:39 PM   #35
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Definitely positive! There's no need to justify the present state of Israeli speedskating affairs, you guys are starting as every other country did. Boaz over-enthusiasm is kind of cute, but I fear he might be in for an unbearable dissapointment. And I would hate if he quits because of a too early Worlds close encounter in his career...
So make use of all this "free advice" given here instead of being on a defensive stance, and count on us for whatever technical-coaching matter you might need.
Here's one: Excuse me Andy, but Gav Polloks is still rather on the green side of things, regarding speedskating... Although he certainly is the best possible resource if the subject is scoring with chicks & partying! They better point towards Mr Fry Junior, who can also tell you that UK is not an up and coming country but one with a lot of history & tradition in this sport.
Another very useful & friendly mover&shaker with a kind eye for newbies is Mr Bill Begg: you'll easily spot him near the bar.
But at Worlds you won't find much people willing to help, as they'll be busy enough...
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Old June 13th, 2007, 12:32 AM   #36
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I know all that Marcello. That's exactly why I think they should talk with Gav (aswell at least, never said they shouldn't talk with others...) , because he was relatively green, not that long ago, and is now competing on a much higher level.
I never said that the UK has no history and tradition in speedskating, just saying that (just like in Israel) hardly anyone in the UK even knows the sport of inline speedskating exists and you can easily learn the full names of all speedskaters (competing in races) in the UK by heart, cause there aint many of em... Though the scene is growing thanks to the hard work of the people that care about the sport!
Of course they would be best off talking to Gav AND Fry Junior AND Bill (and probably a lot of other people), but you gotta start somewhere. Probably even Boazarad and eyal.fink know the name Bill Begg and what he has done for the sport, that can be intimidating too you know! I know Bill is not intimidating at all (great, very kind, man with a listening ear and full of good advise for any skater, no matter what level), but will they believe me when I say that and make contact straight away with the best coach in the world? I'm sure I would! I don't know why, but somehow I feel Boazarad and eyal.fink would like to take smaller steps in that direction. Maybe because only recently they took one really big step already (Worlds)?

I'm talking too much...
Anyway! Our Israeli friends can now add 2 more names on their "have to talk with" list, another positive addition to this thread!

Honestly I don't care if they call Bill Begg, Chad Hedrick, Arjan Smit, Valentina Belloni or whoever else "in the know", as long as they get the info they need to help them. Don't be shy guys!

Cheers,
Andy.
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Old June 13th, 2007, 08:51 AM   #37
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I agree with all said, and really appreciates the help.
THANKS!

BTW we are not afraid of the world class coaches
http://speedcamp.ca/telaviv.html
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Old June 13th, 2007, 10:17 AM   #38
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BTW we are not afraid of the world class coaches
Well, rather than afraid most probably you're not AWARE of "world class coaches"... because being Barry a highly respectable promoter of our sport and one of the best possible choices for beginners, I wouldn't know if he qualifies yet to be listed among the "world class" coaches of inline speedskating.
Anyway, without doubt Israeli skaters will see great improvement after his visit.
(I'm sorry guys, I know I'm pestering you all... I guess I'm not getting my necessary dose of sex)
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Old June 13th, 2007, 04:01 PM   #39
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I guess I'm not getting my necessary dose of sex)

Coñoooo!!
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Old June 13th, 2007, 04:09 PM   #40
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Pancho tu sabes que eso es lo mas necesario para poder funcionar bien!


On the Barry topic, I think he would be perfect to get them from the level that they currently are, to a level that they are ready to go to an actual world class coach, So I would say attend and learn as much as you can, apply it from then on and make sure you practice, practice, practice from then on!
And never forget, take care of technique and speed takes care of itself!
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