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Ask DocSk8 (Expert Indoor Skate Building Advice) This forum is different then the other SkateLog forums in that it is not a discussion forum, but rather a place you can ask skate building expert Fred "DocSk8" Benjamin about building and repairing indoor speed, derby, and jamskate quad roller skates. Please start a new thread for each new question.

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Old February 15th, 2017, 03:31 PM   #1
g29guy
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Default truck reaming for flip axles

Doc

I ordered TI flip axles from derbysmack. I'm going to press them in at work in a suregrip da truck. What size reamer do you use to open up a 7mm truck for a nice fit and no damage?
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Old February 17th, 2017, 02:50 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by g29guy View Post
Doc

I ordered TI flip axles from derbysmack. I'm going to press them in at work in a suregrip da truck. What size reamer do you use to open up a 7mm truck for a nice fit and no damage?
1) Which SG DA truck?? 2) I just get them built that way from Sure Grip. I have had more than one failure pressing those and they are too pricey to break.
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Old February 17th, 2017, 03:38 AM   #3
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Default basic sg da trucks non adjustable

competitor Franken plate.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/150933...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/150933...7679969136995/

Doing titanium flips, making TI kingpins with aluminum/TI hardware went with m10x1.25 kingpin threading and tapped plate to suit. Will see how it works.

I'm only spending money in areas where I can use on other plates if things go south.

I'll just mic the flips and ream to suit. Just asked in case you had found a sweet spot that didn't take damaging press work to the axles.
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Old February 17th, 2017, 04:13 AM   #4
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If you want to get it right pressing in flip axles is considerably more complicated than it looks. The goal should be to have the same distance from the truck side to outer bearing chamfer. Otherwise you will have to custom shim each wheel if you want consistent side play. I shoot for .020"

The first task is to be sure all your axles have the same width between bearings. I use a custom tool to sort axles by length so I can get 4 that are very close to the same. I don't have a photo of the rig I use for this handy but in your case you only have 4 so pop a bearing on each side of the axle and measure the distance between the inside bearings as they rest on the closed flips. Hopefully they are within .010". If not, and you want to change wheels without a lot of shimming you will have to mark axles for the next step and adjust truck widths accordingly. Whatever measurement you come up with needs to have the bearing widths added back in to get the Working Axle Length.

Second is to figure out how much wheel space you want. If you are only going to use modern wheels .315" or so is sufficient. If you want to use vintage wheels like Primo Deanos you will need more like .400". In any case subtract the truck width from the Working Axle Length and divide by 2 and you get an idea of where you are.

Third is to get the trucks square and a consistent width. If all your trucks are the same width, don't care about square and your happy with the wheel space you can skip this step. This is the tooling I use to do that:


In use:


Fourth is to be sure the holes in the trucks are a good fit for the axles. This is tricky and part of the special sauce for each of us that do this sort of thing. It looks like Derbysmack says 7.13mm so I'll leave it at that.

Five... Press in the axles. If you want them solid so they don't start moving a year from now you only get one chance. Possibly two if you can press them into the other side of a truck that has not had the knurled section in it before.

To do a nice job a press is essential. Good tooling helps. I wouldn't even attempt to do this without a protector for the flip:


A device to measure how far you have pressed is also helpful:


I heat the trucks in a toaster oven, insert the axle so the flip will be vertical, add some Loctite and press to my installed dimension. I have a gauge handy to check and creep up on the measurement. If you go to far and have to press back it compromises long term fit.

Doc sez... I had forgotten about all your fun tools for doing this. Thanks for showing them again.

.
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Old February 17th, 2017, 04:34 AM   #5
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Default thanks

Thanks wired, good advice.

I know this machining and pressing is over some skill levels, but with directions from people like doc and yourself, ideas are born and skating evolves for the better. Plus some of us get bored and have to modify to fulfill our compulsive behaviors.
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Old February 17th, 2017, 04:50 AM   #6
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Yes. Quite...

I like flips! (and I don't even change wheels that much...)

My goal is to have a system that is accurate and easy. Many modern wheels are very consistent in bearing spacer which results in a very consistent width. Vintage, not so much...

Anyway with modern wheels, precision installed flips and this box-o-spacers it's a piece of cake to fit wheels with consistent side play.



The numbers are widths in thousandths. I wish I could find a source for Delrin in colors! Three would do to keep things sorted...

.
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Old February 17th, 2017, 02:03 PM   #7
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"The numbers are widths in thousandths. I wish I could find a source for Delrin in colors! Three would do to keep things sorted..."



You could always make or buy them in aluminum and anodize them different colors with rit dye.

Thanks again for the pictures. Ill be making similar tools it looks like to do it right.

I have all the facing and reaming tools necessary, just need to make the press tool and measuring tool or press in slow stages and measure.
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Old February 17th, 2017, 11:32 PM   #8
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You could always make or buy them in aluminum and anodize them different colors with rit dye.
The reason Delrin works so well is it has a bit of give aluminum doesn't. This makes a fit possible that will stay on the axle when the wheel is removed. It is a PITA when you remove a wheel to scrape gum and the spacer falls off.

Post some pix of what you come up with!

.
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Old February 19th, 2017, 04:49 PM   #9
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Like Doc said, completely depends on the truck.

Generally I'll use a 9/32" or sometimes a K bit to chase it. I'll mic the axle to decide. I chuck a 9/32" transfer punch in the drill chuck, and use that to align the truck in the vice. I measure the knurl and will occasionally relieve the opening a little with an L bit so the truck doesn't split. Some trucks are more forgiving than others. Sure Grip's are, Ultimate's clearly are not.

While all that precision is certainly nice, in my estimation anyway, it's not sustainable in a skate application. There are too many cumulative production tolerances to make any sort of precise interchangeability feasible. Plus, once you've gone around a few corners, I can assure you that the axle has probably nudged a little in the truck.

I use a simple 1 ton arbor press to push 'em in. You get feedback from the lever than a hydraulic won't give you, so if something isn't quite kosher, you'll know it before you wreck something. Yes, there's an aluminum cap that protects the flip lever, and I take it nice and easy. Use a machinists rule to check centering.

As for shimming, I have good luck with this:



Not super scientific, but sure makes up for the slight variances that will naturally occur.
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Old February 20th, 2017, 05:09 PM   #10
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Plus, once you've gone around a few corners, I can assure you that the axle has probably nudged a little in the truck.
I have not seen that happen with any of mine since I went to my current method. It's not like I skate gentile around corners either...

Agree 100% on the arbor vs hydraulic! With my 2.3T? I use more force than that little aluminum cap can handle. The tool shown above can press with the same sort of force that is apparently used in inserting threaded axles at the factory. I use slightly less than the force required to remove a factory axle. That with heating the truck and loctite make a tight fit. Trying to remove one of mine has resulted in destruction of the flip.

.
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Old February 21st, 2017, 12:16 AM   #11
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I've yet to get an axle that the 1T wouldn't get out, and it makes quick work of Snyder trucks. I've split more Ultimate III trucks than I want to think about. Any more force than that seems excessive to me.
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Old February 28th, 2017, 03:32 PM   #12
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Default 1t is plenty

Cleaned the trucks up, trued the mating surface and widths so they match. Pressed in nice and snug with 1t mechanical press taking it slow and measuring twice.

Got my TI kingpins done with Al and TI hardware(safety pins get replaced with cotter pins after adjusting is finished). Unorthodox cushions but I like freedom of motion. Kids picked the sparkle glitter colors. TI flip axles to finish it off.
8 ball bearings and im waiting for faster natural wheels to come in to finish it.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/150933...7679969136995/
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