S k a t e L o g     F o r u m
Inline Skating and Quad Roller Skating
Forum Hosts: Jessica Wright | Kathie Fry

FOLLOW US: Our Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Email    


Home - Forum Index - Africa Skating - Asia Skating - Europe Skating - Oceania Skating - Pan America Skating - Roller_Rinks - Friend the SkateLog Forum in Facebook - SkateLog Forum on Facebook

Forum Administrators: Jessica Wright and Kathie Fry | Email Us
Access code for buying and selling subforums: "skates"
How To Get a User Account and Posting Privileges in the SkateLog Forum
Use Google to Search the SkateLog Forum

Go Back   SkateLog Forum > Special Interest Skating Forums (sorted by number of posts) > Quad Roller Skating Forum > Outdoor Quads
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Outdoor Quads Discussions about outdoor quad skates and any discussion relatd to skating on quad roller skatse outdoors.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old March 25th, 2016, 11:32 AM   #1
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,149
Default outdoor wheel choices, not budget limited

I bought some roll line wheels for outdoor use, and i am very unimpressed.

Roll*line Heliums, bleh, my freaking poisons, or superflys work 10x better.

Whos got comparisons for outdoor wheels, modified and unmodified, im not sure what the limit of wheel size is on my skates, probably around 70mm without compromising too much turning.

Thought about zombie hawg wheels, minis maybe? No lip needed, 30mm contact patch works great, tried my vanilla groove n glides outdoors, and despite being listed as 99A and an aluminum hub, they did well. These will be mainly used for speed not agility so turning isnt a huge deal.

Weight is not a concern, would like to keep it down, but oh well if it cant be helped.

Ive never rolled those velocity race wheels, but I cant imagine them being as good as people talked about. After hearing how "good" these roll lines were supposed to be, and being greatly disappointed, i have heavy doubts on the twisters.

Road hogs are an option for a non modified wheel. Terrain doesnt matter, but the rougher the better for comparison honestly, th ad ts where you really see the advantages of a wheel with better rebound at the same duro.

What wheels have you rolled? What did you consider the best? Why?
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2016, 06:53 AM   #2
Armadillo
Senior Member
 
Armadillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Near the Lake
Posts: 6,537
Default

Mort,

How much do you weigh? Were the Heliums you skated brand new or used?
They have a potential design flaw that results from having such a big 49mm hub diameter and thin urethane layer ~7mm,

The flaw is that a heavy skater rolling a very rough asphalt can cause overstressing of the urethane layer from it being so thin. This can incrementally debond the urethane from the hub, and you can see what looks like bubbles forming between the transparent inside thane layer and the hub surface. Once this starts, it's all downhill from there, and the wheels start sucking up your rolling momentum.

The 70mm V-R wheels are near impossible to beat in that size. Their urethane formula has amazingly high rebound, and is just the right firmness to match up with medium quality or better asphalt. On fairly smooth to very smooth asphalt, I do not think a 100-175 lb. skater can beat them. Their black evil twin 70mm RD Twisters are IMO not quite as good and definitely not as durable of a urethane formula, especially when it comes to cuts, splits, and urethane debonding along the edges. Both type wheels have very good stiffness too, from their 12 full width spokes design, giving total support of the hub cylinder all the way out to both wheel edges.

The 76mm Z-Hawgs in 84A or 86A, then narrowed to fully remove the lip at ~32mm (depending on skater weight) is what I really think you should get. They have such really good roll rebound and extremely good durability. My one negative on them is that the hub cylinder squish flexes a bit where there is no spoke support on outer side, and the plastic cylinder for the bearing is a bit flimsy too. Somehow though this flexing looks worse than it actually seems to affect the roll performance negatively.

Lastly, for a heavier skater rolling on a lot of rougher surfaces, I think the Orangatang Kegels 80mm in 84A (purple), or 80A (orange) for really rough surfaces. are the way to go, but only if the plate can handle their larger size OD.

Every time I roll my avatar PIC skates, and I mean EVERY time, the 76mm/84A Z-Hawgs NEVER cease to impress me with their great smooth cushioning, efficient roll, and their ability to take big impact hits on surface debris and imperfections without hanging up or getting damaged.

Nearing 1500 miles soon and still no bad cuts or significant chunks missing.

The 70mm Velocity Race wheels will still match or beat them on really good asphalt though, and will kill them for low weight and very low flex too.

I assure anyone considering the cost of narrowing the Z-Hawgs, it is absolutely well worth it both for the performance & weight improvement, and especially for their 2500+ mile life estimate.

-Armadillo
__________________
Rollin' on AIR

Last edited by Armadillo; March 28th, 2016 at 10:48 PM.
Armadillo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2016, 11:40 AM   #3
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,149
Default

I dont have a lot of deck height to play with. Thats my killer there.

The heliums were brand new. I do think the heliums urethane is way too thin, but even indoors, the speed they have is crap IMO. Like I can do better on poisons easily. I dont think their urethane is good either.

What about the mini hawgs? Do you know if they are a good candidate for the job?

Cosmic superflys did well outdoors. A bit rough on poor payvement, but I dont have problems laying down 20+ if I want.

6'1" 185lb
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2016, 04:01 PM   #4
Armadillo
Senior Member
 
Armadillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Near the Lake
Posts: 6,537
Default

Mort, what plates and how stiff do you set your suspension? With Helium wheels it must be responsive and allow wheels to always stay down flat on rolling surface all the way across the wheel. No rolling the edges with them, because that over crushes the super thin urethane layer and kills the rebound. This applies to all very large hub (49mm) wheels with thin (<10mm) urethane layers.

Also, beware of going too firm outdoors because you will shred the urethane up in no time, especially on concrete. If wheel firmness is high enough that you feel the vibrations at a foot annoying level, then you are bleeding your rolling momentum energy away from too much vertical wheel oscillation amplitude, and a softer high rebound duro will potentially & typically give you more speed with less vertical oscillation.

What axle size will you use? I suggest 8mm and stainless bearings with SiN ceramic balls for no worry with water. You can get a set for under ~$100 if you shop well.

What is your foot size? I have an extra set of Twister 70mm wheels I could let you test, and if you like them, maybe even a virgin set Velocity Race ones I could sell you too. They both have steel bearing sleeves for the 8mm axle size too. Unfortunately, they are the 19mm OD bearing size (available for 7mm axles too).

-Armadillo
__________________
Rollin' on AIR
Armadillo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2016, 06:21 PM   #5
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,149
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
Mort, what plates and how stiff do you set your suspension? With Helium wheels it must be responsive and allow wheels to always stay down flat on rolling surface all the way across the wheel. No rolling the edges with them, because that over crushes the super thin urethane layer and kills the rebound. This applies to all very large hub (49mm) wheels with thin (<10mm) urethane layers.

Also, beware of going too firm outdoors because you will shred the urethane up in no time, especially on concrete. If wheel firmness is high enough that you feel the vibrations at a foot annoying level, then you are bleeding your rolling momentum energy away from too much vertical wheel oscillation amplitude, and a softer high rebound duro will potentially & typically give you more speed with less vertical oscillation.

What axle size will you use? I suggest 8mm and stainless bearings with SiN ceramic balls for no worry with water. You can get a set for under ~$100 if you shop well.

What is your foot size? I have an extra set of Twister 70mm wheels I could let you test, and if you like them, maybe even a virgin set Velocity Race ones I could sell you too. They both have steel bearing sleeves for the 8mm axle size too. Unfortunately, they are the 19mm OD bearing size (available for 7mm axles too).

-Armadillo
I dont do 7mm axles, i have 2 skate plates with them, a set of carreras, and a proline. Neither of them do I use.

Arius has 8mm axles only at this time. I wear a size 10 vanilla freestyke, my feet are 283mm in length, the plate is 193mm long. The only way to get the axle farther forward is NTS or flip the plate around.

Ill just buy some stainless bearings grease packed NMB from randy welch 17 $ for a full set. Need to buy more wheels first before investing in insignificant gains from bearings.

The skates have 80A cushion in them and they are well broken in. I can wheelbite if I wish on 57mm wheels, or carve a 4 foot circle on one foot. The roll lines are slow even rolling over fair asphalt in a straight line. As wide as the atom poisons are they are still worlds better. Hell even the groove n glides aluminum hubbed wheels at an advertised 99A are better. (30mm wide)

How much ya talking for wheels?
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2016, 04:43 PM   #6
Fancy-Kerrigan
Senior Member
 
Fancy-Kerrigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Madison, FL
Posts: 758
Default

Velocity Race wheels ARE all that and a bag of chips. Light, agile, fast, and just all around amazing. Speed, jam, and art skating outside. I love love love these wheels!

Radar Pures were great. They rolled over everything and really offered good roll for the push. They were heavy compared with the Race wheels and in retrospect seemed more boggy.

Kryptonic Route 62. Skated these into the ground a few years ago. I liked the measurements of the wheel. Seemed to be best for art skating outside. Not really all that great going long distances. Seemed to not get as much glide per push as a bigger wheel. Also quite soft. got a nail lodged in one wheel with in the first 30 days of use. Lighter than the Pures.
Fancy-Kerrigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2016, 01:18 PM   #7
Shazzamm1971
Still Learning.....
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Calgary by way of Lethbridge
Posts: 11
Default Duro is a funny thing outdoors. Spending needlessly is not.

I have to sets of new outdoor wheels. I'm 210lbs and 6'2" and have skated quads and Ice since the early seventies. First set I bought was Mini Zombie Hawgs in 82a. You don't have to take that inner 2mm off on the lathe like "Mr. Outdoor" has said if used on a Powerdyne. When I put the 70mm Mini Zombies on I was biting the boot just getting to the door..I did need to increase my deck height with the use of a downhill longboard cushion (Venom) as I was getting boot bite indoors on my Royal Assassins. I went with the Venom orange 81a standards boot side and purple Sure-Grip cone lowers. I liked these way better than the Powerdyne Urethane (was running 89a purple upper and 85a yellow lowers with the PD's, the duro numbers on the Magic cushions are way way off! The first ride on these Hawgs was surprisingly rough and little pebbles where not just smoothly rolled over, they were getting flung. I was surprised at the speed though but didn't feel like I could corner sharp as these longboard wheels which was surprising again as they come out of the package with ground urethane that feels rather grippy in the hand but these are meant to bust loose for boarders for 90 deg slides. Lesson learned. I started hunting for outdoor set number 2. The local rink was selling Atom Road Hogs at a really cheap price of $85 Canadian which is like 62 bucks 'Merican.. Thought what the hell and took a set home. Out of the package the urethane felt very slick, but I dropped one and the damn thing is like a super ball and bounced all over my basement shop. Grabbed one of the Hawgs and dropped it from the same height and it bounced about half the height twice.. hmmm. interesting. Went for the same rip around the block that I initially took on the Hawgs and I was pleasantly surprised. The reviews that the Road Hogs 78a have as being a fast wheel were not BS. These things ripped. Vibration was way lower than the Hawgs and at 66mm were not giving anything up in roll. To the contrary they rolled better as the 'thane was softer allowing for less bounce and more rip. Weight is less of an issue as well. The only thing I can say that is better on the skateboard wheels was the bearing selection. I bought them with LandYacht "Bear Space Balls" (factory grease pack) which have built in spacers and could lock down the axel nuts. Because of the wider spacing though one better reverse the nuts or there is no ny-lok bite into the threads. The bearings I ran in the Road Hogs where cheap Kwik Zenith packed with DuPont Krytox GPL grease. In all honesty I wish I would have just bought the Atoms to begin and saved the hundred and sixty (yeah ***** expensive to us Canucks) spent on the Mini Zombie Hawgs and bearings. I could have used that for some kick ass something or others. Oh and you should send me a PM as I would like to discuss the issues with the 688's in your RA's.
Shazzamm1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2016, 09:13 PM   #8
Armadillo
Senior Member
 
Armadillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Near the Lake
Posts: 6,537
Default

Yes, your Road Hogs v. Mini-Hawgs story confirms what I always say - that too firm a duro outdoors can kill your rolling momentum just as easily as too soft can. Getting the right match between wheel rebound & firmness with asphalt roughness is what it tales to get those long rolling push strokes outdoors. which I so love an a nice sunny day!

-Armadillo
__________________
Rollin' on AIR
Armadillo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2016, 07:58 AM   #9
Bunny_Hop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 122
Default

I use Atom Pulses outdoors (and sometimes indoors when I can't be bothered changing them) and I love them! However, I only weigh 55kg; heavier skaters apparently find them too soft and sticky. But I find them a good compromise between size and agility.
__________________
"You're bending your knees too much." - my coach
Bunny_Hop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 15th, 2016, 01:40 PM   #10
maltoch
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 40
Default

try the cruise 65
maltoch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2016, 01:09 AM   #11
Armadillo
Senior Member
 
Armadillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Near the Lake
Posts: 6,537
Default

Mort, I could send you, for testing, a set of used RD Twister 70mm wheels with the 8mm bearings installed (the evil twin of the Velocity Race).

Then if you like their performance, I have a brand new set of them available to sell, and another new set of 70mm V-R that I might sell, but at a higher price.

This way you can get a pretty good idea of how they both perform before having to commit any $ for a purchase.

Email me (click on avatar name), or PM me if this makes sense to you and we can work out details.

-Armadillo
__________________
Rollin' on AIR
Armadillo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2016, 04:26 AM   #12
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,149
Default

Really only need 4 to compare, but a full set for real comparison wouldn't be a bad thing.

Might buy some road hogs. Need to get with the longboard crew and find out what urethane is fastest on downhill straights. Sliding means jack to us for the most part. The compound variations for sliding is usually a silica sand powder to help tear resistance. This typically reduces rebound and crosslinking.

Just pm me some details. Usually black urethanes arent great, historically anyways.
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2016, 03:58 PM   #13
maltoch
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 40
Default

for me the new red kryptonics route 70mm 83a is the best wheel...200%
the best durometer
the best urethane quality
the best diameter compromise
the best contact patch
the best design ...same as a krypto cruise or hawaii k i used but faster
the famous scratch sound when you push with your legs...sound a of a good quality urethane

with the krypto 78a...i m scotched and can obtain a descent speed.

the zombie hawgs and rd twisters are not at all so fast as this new wheel.
i tried them...look at my post....and can compare.

but i m heavyweight...100kg....maybe for a -80 kg guy....krypto cruise 70 or 65mm in 78a...there is a new model too...could be better.

i just ordered 627 skf zz bearings....i will compared them soon to my bones redz....i always used them in past....i think i will be surprised too.
bones redz are better than bsb abec swiss....but skf will be surely better....
all my bearings are free of grease....i always use degreaser for paint and replace it with oil...better performances...but you need to refill them with oil each time you use it and clean them again more than greased bearings.

what a pleasure to rediscovered my old performances....
maltoch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2016, 04:14 PM   #14
maltoch
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 40
Default

i tested past 2 years
rd twister aka rollerskate k2 65 and 70 78a Shr
krypto cruise 65 78a
krypto route 70 78a
zombie hawgs 76 82a
krypto hawaii k 69 78a
radar flyer 65 78a

armadillo....if you want i can exchange wheels with you...i didn t tested the velocity race ...they could interest me...we could do a deal with my collection of wheels.

but the rd twisters ...i m not intrested....
maltoch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2016, 05:20 PM   #15
Armadillo
Senior Member
 
Armadillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Near the Lake
Posts: 6,537
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maltoch View Post
i tested past 2 years
rd twister aka rollerskate k2 65 and 70 78a Shr
krypto cruise 65 78a
krypto route 70 78a
zombie hawgs 76 82a
krypto hawaii k 69 78a
radar flyer 65 78a

armadillo....if you want i can exchange wheels with you...i didn t tested the velocity race ...they could interest me...we could do a deal with my collection of wheels.

but the rd twisters ...i m not intrested....
The RD Twister 65mm & 70mm wheels came from the same factory as the Velocity Race wheels, and performance wise they are both very similar, with a slight durability advantage going to the V-Rs. So, it is doubtful that the V-R wheels will impress you if the Twisters did not.

I have the 76mm Z-Hawgs in 84A and 86A already. I was not aware of there ever being a 76mm Z-Hawg in the 82A firmness? What color are they?
Have you narrowed your Z-Hawg wheels to the mid-30s mm width yet? What about narrowing for any of your other wheels?
I don't skate any outdoor wheels less than ~70mm any more, since the quality of the surfaces I roll is too rough for the smaller sizes, and even the 70mm size ones are reserved for racing and max speed training only for their lower weight.

My next new wheels will likely be the 80mm 80A Kegel from Orangatang.
All the Kryptonic wheeks I have seen have crappy hub designs, which compromises having best roll and makes them to heavy for me.

-Armadillo
__________________
Rollin' on AIR
Armadillo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 16th, 2016, 11:27 PM   #16
Armadillo
Senior Member
 
Armadillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Near the Lake
Posts: 6,537
Default DELETE double post please

double post
__________________
Rollin' on AIR

Last edited by Armadillo; April 16th, 2016 at 11:28 PM. Reason: double post
Armadillo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 17th, 2016, 10:26 PM   #17
yedaki_de
Outdoor Quad Skater
 
yedaki_de's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany near Frankfurt
Posts: 370
Default Orangatang Kegel 80mm 83a

https://flic.kr/p/zhSZZ1

Cut to 36mm width.

with the big diameter they roll very good over road imperfections and the rebound is quite good.
yedaki_de is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19th, 2016, 05:11 AM   #18
Armadillo
Senior Member
 
Armadillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Near the Lake
Posts: 6,537
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yedaki_de View Post
https://flic.kr/p/zhSZZ1

Cut to 36mm width.

with the big diameter they roll very good over road imperfections and the rebound is quite good.
With what plate are you using the Kegels in the PIC?

-Armadillo
__________________
Rollin' on AIR
Armadillo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19th, 2016, 06:11 PM   #19
maltoch
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 40
Default

zombie blue hub yellow urethane

i think the advantage of a krypto cruise design is that the hub is really sideset ...half the wheel...on the other half ...you only have urethane....then when you push on your legs they are firm at first and then the other half can deform more and your can ear this famous scratch sound of urethane agaisnt the floor.
but surely because of my heavyweight....i had always bad performences with 78a wheels....

no i didnt reduced the urethane on my zombie....but i felt after 2 sessions....that they are big ok...but not faster....as my old krypto retro k....
the new route 83a are faster in downhill..

remember that this route 83a has nothing to compare to the others krypto....

back in the past...i used 2 sets of retro k krypto....never seen this set on the net....really unknown in the world....they were white with green retro k wrote on the side....cruise design but harder in 82a.
bravo which is an italian firm...produced krypto wheels for french market and these wheels were sold 10 years ago in sports shop chain...maybe for skateboard....

i always thought like you....that would be really good to find a little bit bigger ... a little bit harder and whith a zombie design hub....something like a cruise in 72 mm 83a and with a zombie hub....unfortunely....this wheel never borned...
but if they produced a new route 76mm 83a..i will surely order them...but now....i will order new set of this one in 70mm.

try them....if i say you they are better than vr 70....
maltoch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2016, 12:17 AM   #20
Armadillo
Senior Member
 
Armadillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Near the Lake
Posts: 6,537
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maltoch View Post
zombie blue hub yellow urethane

i think the advantage of a krypto cruise design is that the hub is really sideset ...half the wheel...on the other half ...you only have urethane....then when you push on your legs they are firm at first and then the other half can deform more and your can ear this famous scratch sound of urethane agaisnt the floor.
but surely because of my heavyweight....i had always bad performences with 78a wheels....

no i didnt reduced the urethane on my zombie....but i felt after 2 sessions....that they are big ok...but not faster....as my old krypto retro k....
the new route 83a are faster in downhill..

remember that this route 83a has nothing to compare to the others krypto....

back in the past...i used 2 sets of retro k krypto....never seen this set on the net....really unknown in the world....they were white with green retro k wrote on the side....cruise design but harder in 82a.
bravo which is an italian firm...produced krypto wheels for french market and these wheels were sold 10 years ago in sports shop chain...maybe for skateboard....

i always thought like you....that would be really good to find a little bit bigger ... a little bit harder and whith a zombie design hub....something like a cruise in 72 mm 83a and with a zombie hub....unfortunely....this wheel never borned...
but if they produced a new route 76mm 83a..i will surely order them...but now....i will order new set of this one in 70mm.

try them....if i say you they are better than vr 70....
Comparing wheels of various diameter and durometer #s is not so useful if their contact patch widths are not similar.

When rolling outdoors, variations in contact patch widths from wheel to wheel have a BIG impact on their performance comparisons, based also on the skaters' weights and the wheels' duromoter #s

-Armadillo
__________________
Rollin' on AIR
Armadillo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.