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Outdoor Quads Discussions about outdoor quad skates and any discussion relatd to skating on quad roller skatse outdoors.

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Old May 19th, 2016, 11:46 AM   #1
Goldiloks
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Default Help me choose a wheel?

Hi chaps,

I will be rolling outside on tennis court / asphalt, and would like some advice on a wheel that would suit me for rollerdancing, spins, and small jumps. I'm 80kg, so on the heavier side of things... hoping to shed some of that though!

(I have Hyper Rollos and Krypto Route 62s already, both 78a)

Can anyone offer some comparisons or reviews on these wheels, for my needs?

Suregrip Aerobic
Suregrip Motion
Radar Tofu
Radar Energy
Sims Street Snakes
Atom Pulse

Or should I try something harder?

Thank you
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Old May 19th, 2016, 06:49 PM   #2
maltoch
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i suppose you prefer smaller wheels for agility and you don t ride a lot on street.
80kg..i suppose you re european because of kilogrammes .
80 is the limit for a harder wheel.

i would try the new krypto route 62 green 83a and with the same design and about the dame hardness...the krypto panane ...many colors in 62mm too but a little bit harder ...84a.
if you want something softer...the cruise white in 62mm but 78a.

route 62 old design have a bad design for what you do...i think rollo must be better....i tested them but too soft for me....i m near 100kg.
sims snake that i tested a long time ago have a smaller contact patch than route and rollo...and i didn t like them....but a lot of guys in france loved these wheels ..like a myth....hyper rollo, sims and kryptoto where very famous....but i was faster with my 70mm wheels ...always...so...
on my own, cruise wheel design is the best for quad skate, with its round edges....cruise, new route and paname have the same look.

wheel is a personal choice....personnaly i found for outdoor and recreational skating ...the new route 70 in 83a red are the best....by far, better than velocity race aka...

i ordered bones reds, skf zz, and roll line speed max abec9 micro bearings 8 balls.

bones redz roll better than skf but the speedmax roll line i mounted today seems to be very very impressive....
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Old May 20th, 2016, 01:17 AM   #3
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@maltoch - The no longer available Velocity Race wheels in 65mm size were never appropriate outdoors for 100Kg (220LB.) skaters, because their large 49mm hubs made for too thin of a urethane layer to handle the stress.

If you are saying that Krypto 70mm wheels in 83A are better performing than 70mm V-R wheels, then that could only be for certain surfaces, your level of weight, and the amount of rolling surface roughness involved.

At 83A the Krypto wheel firmness would match up well with smother surfaces. The softer V-R wheel with a lighter weight skater will easily outperform any tiny hub Krypto wheels on medium or better rolling surface quality skating for skaters at 80Kg and under

Tennis courts are usually very smooth, so a firmer than 78A wheel makes sense in the 80-84 range. A larger hub will help too.

Narrower wheels roll better outdoors, but if you want to have your suspension stiff and be rolling on the wheel edges a lot, then you want to have a somewhat wider wheel with a decent amount of a protruding lip.

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Old May 20th, 2016, 05:44 AM   #4
maltoch
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http://www.skatesus.com/store/produc...oducts_id=545a

for what he would want to do....
he doesnt need top speed but fast acceleration..62 is ok...65 will be too much for dancing and spining on tennis court.
83a i think is better because he will use them on smootb surface most of the time and is weight is ok for 83a...if he was 70 kg, i said to keep wheels in 78a.
cruise design that is about the same but not exactly the same on suregrip motion, aerobic, atom pulse with its round edges on 2 sides is better for doing fast movements in corners, better for dancing and spining....i dance better with round edge wheels...for spinnings, i never found the tip to spin more than turns. for jumps...it depends of what kind of jump...but the weight of skates is really important of you jump something on a flat surface...with my weight i didn do some high jump on flat surface...

large hub like on velocit race for jump....someone that do high jump will destroy them very fast because of the hub itself...

i repeat wheel is a personal choice...i tested all the wheels people talked and supposed to be better than the other....i found by far that the new krypto route in 83a is better, has a good and true high rebound quality...than any other wheel....
habitually, when i test a part, the first meters tell me what i will discover in 10 kms....

and sometime i m wrong.....last time i said 627 skf zz seems to be better than bones redz....but in fact no...
the speedmax i bought that others french quad skaters talked i just bought roll smooth with no effort very very better...
so i test...i compare...and that s my personal opinion and someone else can say no you re wrong but without testing wheel and bearings ...how he can?

i know the rollo are better for him actually because rollo has sharped edges that is not best but old route have too much exterior urethane that doesn t help and rollo are leightweight than route.

a link...interresting fact about speedmax i discovered after i bought them...guy says they are like 82 snyder bearings i didn t know...was too young
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Old May 20th, 2016, 05:51 AM   #5
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i talked about these bearings but i don t know they are good for jumps...bones redz are enough...but people that usually do jumps like on trocadero in paris used stronger bearings ...zz bezrings.

armadillo i send you other links...that s really personal choice...people use often in france soccer shoes...i prefer ice choose...
the number 1 plates in france were always sold by hawaii surf...that was their homemade plates..i always used dikers plates...unkown in usa....

people are only all ok for 2 things...you want to roll faster...use 70 mm wheels when you can and harder wheels more around 82a if you are heavyweight.
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Old May 20th, 2016, 06:23 AM   #7
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lazers was the brand of hawaii surf...first there was fewer sizes with options...on trucks...applicarptiins, etc...
now because of inine they sells less plates and they are now discontinued because of their builder that stop production.

actually, i consider that roll line plates are very good products and for a nice price..you can buy variant m , mistral or spin at low price.
unfortunetly, they are more expensive in usa because that s an italian brand....but look at the entire catalog and technology used...titanium on some trucks...a large choice of trucks cushions...

for the wheels...like you surely know...krytponics wheels were often produced by bravo corp which was italian...now...it s difficult to say but some krypto are produced by suregrip.

another importznt thing to say....in europe...because of laws...quality of urethane has changed.
let me explain something...in usa...you can paint a car with solvented paint...chemical products a lot....now...paint is so strong but with water based.
it was so hard to obtain the exact color when i repainted my car...something you know...i m a 79 pontiac firebird formula owner.

what i want to pointed...in indonesia...they can surely used an old chemical a lot urethane ...in europe...if our wheels are produced there...they surely have to modify they production and the chemical products they use now.

i think quality of our wheels have an impact and producers have to find some solutions especially to obtain high rebound wheel.
if you read the article about kryptoto...rider says he asked a 78a wheel but with a particular urethane that permits him to ride on raining day...78...xx....that means kryptonics did some differents urethane qualities...in the same durometer.
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Old May 20th, 2016, 08:38 AM   #8
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Thanks for all this info @maltoch - wow, lots to read here!

I didn't know the history of Krypto, but it's good to expand one's mind wit these things!

Oh yes, I know the mythical thing you speak of with Sims Street Snakes (I'm in the UK) - the 80's ones anyway. Not sure how the new ones stack up, maybe the material has changed now. The old ones came in some very pretty colours! (kind of irrelevant, but who doesn't love a pretty wheel?? )

The Hyper Rollos are really nice. I've used them for street and park skating, and will keep them for that purpose. They are very stable when trying to dance on the move, but a little too sticky to do footwork on the spot.

Is this the Krypto you are suggesting to try, @Maltoch?



Thanks @armadillo too! Can you a suggest a large-ish hubbed 80-84a wheel?
Heliums look quite thin on urethane for my liking. These wheels need to withstand a heavy lump like me doing t-stops

I skated a no-hub wheel a while back (indoor) and it was the most miserable skating experience of my life. Awful. I can see why some people give up before they have begun their skating journey, when they start off on the wrong type of wheel for their weight.

Would a harder wheel such a Poison be any good for what I'm after? I admit to preferring a more rounded lip, but I am up for suggestions!
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Old May 20th, 2016, 10:37 AM   #9
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with heavy jumps...you can destroy hubs of wheels like radar flyer or helium for example.
it seems you need a little firmer wheel so 82a to 84a would be ok.
i think round edges on each side help a lot in all applications and because of cornering and spins you do...it is more desirable.
i tested sims 15 years ago and velvet or two tones one already existed but i ride them 1 day and sold them...too small diameter but too little contact patch...straight edges and bad urethane so....the myth is dead in my spirit.

yes that s the wheels set i propose you on your pics...for your usage....but 65 yellow one are better for outdoor use...and 70mm are turbo jet gti.
on very rough surface....83a is a little bit bad...but on most of asphalt....it s really better....if you re heavyweight....the best will be you eat more mac donalds sandwiches to obtain 90 kg or more.
with 65mm and more you can t dance and spin very well because you need to be very reactive but you can...i do...and don t want to replace my 70mm wheels each time i dance a long time...i dance before or after i ride fewer kms....just for fun but not my major activity.
it depends of what you are really going to do...if major time you re on the street...62 is a little bit small.

that s my opinion....
you can t compare the new route to other wheel....just the design of the cruise wheel.
urethane quality is amazing...
if you look at the kryptonics website....they are produced in the line of star trac....old is the best....nothing new...
roll ine speedmax bearings...a copy of 82 snyder bearings.
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Old May 20th, 2016, 10:50 AM   #10
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open hub isn t the ultimate solution....if the urethane quality is poor...no chance to obtain performances....a weight gain , yes on the wheel...but not any time a power result.

atom poison ....the hub, the contact patch, the edges ?
and didn t test them....what s the urethane quality...

kryptonics and hyper are historical the best producers for quad and skates wheels....last year...they weren t at the top but they seems to come back...they start with the star trac , the new route....what else ? the kryptospresso?

trust me , i tested so many wheels last year....200% new krypto route for ever....

yes, a lot of website to visit....but beforde the 90s, i don t really know what s on the market....snyder and chicago were famous brand....krypto rental, krypto krypto were often used....
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Old May 20th, 2016, 11:04 AM   #11
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for example, the famous velocity race aka rd twister aka rollerskate k2 is the same as a sims wheel but witha very large open hub....same diameterin 65mm, same contact patch...
it s ok for a lighweight or girl for outdoor speed...and the choice of special bearings for them is limited.

you know the sims wheels were used for snakes boards, uk boards.....werent produced at first for classic skate boards and quads at all...
i think the success came from te wheel choice in the 90s ....compared to krypto impulse or the beginning of cruise, maybe they fighted with them and krypto rollo and they were ok....but for me the quality isn t really better than an poor impulse wheel.

but if you want i have 4 pcs of 65mm velocity race and 12 pcs of vr 70mm ...and a set of 7mm special bearings for them for sale.
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Old May 20th, 2016, 11:50 AM   #12
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@maltoch - do you have a pic of your skates with the new Krypto Route wheel?

I've only ever used wheels with one rounded edge, so I'd be curious to see what they look like in place. Does Krypto advertise these as a longboard wheel because of the double rounded edge? My Route 62's look like this (mine are black though):





I can't see the new Route being available in the UK - only the previous 78a design.

The Cruise seem like a similar shape though... but thats 78a too.

Perhaps I shall look into the Paname.
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Old May 20th, 2016, 04:39 PM   #13
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I don't know how much better any "new" kyrptonics wheels are, as I haven't seen or rolled any. Kryptos do typically have a good urethane quality, but only certain ones have decent hubs. Most others have poor hubs designed for skateboarding it would seem.

For best performance outdoor hubs should have a CYLINDRICAL outer surface that supports the full width of the urethane (when no lip). The spokes should support the full width of the hub's outer cylinder too, or at least most of tht width.

The huge bulging urethane sides serve no purpose whatsoever and just add weight. They should be avoided, or cut off, if you have that capability.
Sixteen bulging sides adds a LOT of detrimental weight.


I avoid any Krypto wheels with the goofy wedge shaped hub with ribs. The red ones above are an example. It allows the urethane to squish around in to many directions besides just vertically.

This Krypto Classic has the cylindrical hub I prefer



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Old May 20th, 2016, 08:02 PM   #14
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this is my quad skates
risport etoile boots
dikers plates...productiin finished since a long time...
all these parts have near 20 years old.

new route 70mm 83a
roll line speedmax abec 9 micro bearings 8 balls


krypto paname can be ordered at hawaii surf in france.
new krypto route is a skateboard wheel.
like krypto cruise, this wheel has a sideset set hub that dont cover all the wheel or all the contact patch..but i prefer them.
i ordered my new krypto route on ebay in usa.
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Old May 20th, 2016, 08:20 PM   #15
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classic k 70mm 78a white vs old route 70mm 78a vs new krypto route 70mm 83a
i put them as close as possible.
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Old May 20th, 2016, 08:39 PM   #16
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rd twister 70 78a aka.....vs krypto hawaii k 70mm 78a vs new route 70mm 83a
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Old May 20th, 2016, 09:04 PM   #17
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http://www.sakaroule.net/2009/10/nouvelles-kryptos.html

look at the link...paname was at first in 62mm 80a in 2009, became versus hawaii surf...the quad french shop, and now paname 84a...

do you know what is paname word signification?
it s the other name of paris in current language...i go to paname...i go to paris....

i think this wheel is made for european market, i didn t seen them on usa websites.

but i don t know the quality of the urethane at all so can t compare to new route urethane.
i think they are made by bravo at first for hawaii surf and now paname for europe.
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Old May 21st, 2016, 01:21 AM   #18
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I don't think body weight is an issue (for the op) for "any" wheel other then say radar wheels (soft hubs), I don't think the roll line helium wheel's hub, is inferior (actually it's superior) and I've never heard of a roll line helium, hub failing, I do hear conjecture of the urethane getting cut's, (I have three very used set's no cut's), by "speed skaters", well, using them for dancing and exercising on a court is a best case scenario, I mounted up a new set today and with my Trucks (aftermarket D/A45's) had wheel bite for a 1/2 hour (it was weird,and a lot of work to keep moving), 64mm, great hub, outstanding urethane and a slim footprint, putting a set on a roll line plate is a win win situation, but, a 59mm or less wheel is a good learning tool, 56mm with a 10 or 18 degree action is fun and a great way to learn.
The thicker the urethane the more loss of energy, and the more weight carried, and wheel weight is the most critical to diminish.

Thick urethane only steals energy, it's doesn't have a "wave" between hub and ground that mystically gives back anything, it simply uses energy compressing and un-compressing, just like cushions, less is more
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Old May 21st, 2016, 06:26 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ursle View Post
I don't think body weight is an issue (for the op) for "any" wheel other then say radar wheels (soft hubs), I don't think the roll line helium wheel's hub, is inferior (actually it's superior) and I've never heard of a roll line helium, hub failing, I do hear conjecture of the urethane getting cut's, (I have three very used set's no cut's), by "speed skaters", well, using them for dancing and exercising on a court is a best case scenario, I mounted up a new set today and with my Trucks (aftermarket D/A45's) had wheel bite for a 1/2 hour (it was weird,and a lot of work to keep moving), 64mm, great hub, outstanding urethane and a slim footprint, putting a set on a roll line plate is a win win situation, but, a 59mm or less wheel is a good learning tool, 56mm with a 10 or 18 degree action is fun and a great way to learn.
The thicker the urethane the more loss of energy, and the more weight carried, and wheel weight is the most critical to diminish.

Thick urethane only steals energy, it's doesn't have a "wave" between hub and ground that mystically gives back anything, it simply uses energy compressing and un-compressing, just like cushions, less is more
Here we go again. : /

If you were right about the roll line style wheels being so fast and good, why do long boarders who are after downhill speed use wheels with such thick urethane that "steals energy"?

Sometime tomorrow Ill be taking the roll lines vs atom poisons vs road hogs on several different surfaces. Finally got some time off work.

This "wave" is real. Its what happens when you roll over a surface. I never said that it propelled you. What happens is the urethane absorbs imperfect road and skating surfaces of outdoors, smoothing out the ride immensely. The roll lines cannot do this because the urethame is so flippin thin. The moment it starts to deflect/deform, its already at its limit for compression, everything else becomes vertical lift or it damages the urethanes crosslinking. Ontop of that the urethane doesnt seem to be very good, just from dropping a wheel you can see the energy potential of a wheel to maintain its roll. Good wheels bounce like crazy. Poor quality urethane wheels don't.

The wave of pressure and deflection travels around the wheel and inwards to the hub, since the wheels have ridges inside there if the urethane is thin , even on smooth ground mind you its like riding over a bunch of small ridges. This again falls back to the urethane being too thin. Simply put , the compressive wave has nowhere to go. If you watch iceroad truckers, you can see how compressive waves work as a semi drives across a road of ice. Granted its not the exact same, but the wave is there and the radial energy absorbed and ultimately consumed by such a thin layer is more in the roll lines than in any other wheel I have skated on outdoors.

To be fair ill test them thoroughly tomorrow.
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Old May 21st, 2016, 06:53 AM   #20
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@ursle, have you had a chance to try Adonis wheels?

Physics aside, seems like this wheel business is very much personal preference. If I was more flush, I'd buy a whole bunch of wheels and try them out
I'm sure each one has its merits.

I'm just after a smooth agile roll for my weight, on asphalt. There won't be debris hopefully, and I'll be skating when it's dry. I don't need to go at light speed, as I'll be dancing on the spot or moving at a slow roll. I want to shuffle, toe jam, spin a little.... And go from there. No hockey stops but t-stops yes. Big jumps no, transitional hops and little jumps, yes.

Last edited by Goldiloks; May 21st, 2016 at 08:39 AM.
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