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Outdoor Quads Discussions about outdoor quad skates and any discussion relatd to skating on quad roller skatse outdoors.

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Old May 21st, 2016, 08:04 AM   #21
maltoch
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you can t compare wheels if you didn t test them.

and nobody like the same wheel.

it takes a long time to find your best wheels...you need to spend money...

personnaly, the new route is the best in my application...but can understand someone else prefers another model.

i tried last years, zombie hawgs, rd twister, route, hawaii k, radar flyer, classic k....and many others the next 20 years....
surely, the design and the durometer of new route same as the first 70mm krypto retro k i used have an influence...
somebody that used at first a flatter design like hyper rollo for example would prefer this kind of wheel...
you change of design and maybe you feel you cant push on your feets the same...not the same reaction...

for me round edge give a final squish that add some power and it aids for sharp turning or parralell braking....if you stop in T position...nothing matter.

never tested the helium but will not buy them...too small for me...i can push easily 70mm wheels so...

a little bit harder wheel will help in dancing and he doesn t need a mpre than 62 mm wheel...
remember he wants to jump.
if he jumps currently stairs of more than 1 meter, he surely can destroy the hub and when he will contact the floor...the energy will not be absorb by urethane partially but by the body...

we can discuss a long time....nobody will say the same...

the only solution will be to do a meeting together....and test all the combo.
but personnaly i never say a quad skater to use the wheels you see on pics...

ok rd twister aka vr is not too bad...and not really better than radar flyer but there is a major problem...the bearing...no real choice..and too small contact patch for me.
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Old May 21st, 2016, 10:03 AM   #22
Armadillo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
Here we go again. : /

If you were right about the roll line style wheels being so fast and good, why do long boarders who are after downhill speed use wheels with such thick urethane that "steals energy"?

Sometime tomorrow Ill be taking the roll lines vs atom poisons vs road hogs on several different surfaces. Finally got some time off work.

This "wave" is real. Its what happens when you roll over a surface. I never said that it propelled you. What happens is the urethane absorbs imperfect road and skating surfaces of outdoors, smoothing out the ride immensely. The roll lines cannot do this because the urethame is so flippin thin. The moment it starts to deflect/deform, its already at its limit for compression, everything else becomes vertical lift or it damages the urethanes crosslinking. Ontop of that the urethane doesnt seem to be very good, just from dropping a wheel you can see the energy potential of a wheel to maintain its roll. Good wheels bounce like crazy. Poor quality urethane wheels don't.

The wave of pressure and deflection travels around the wheel and inwards to the hub, since the wheels have ridges inside there if the urethane is thin , even on smooth ground mind you its like riding over a bunch of small ridges. This again falls back to the urethane being too thin. Simply put , the compressive wave has nowhere to go. If you watch iceroad truckers, you can see how compressive waves work as a semi drives across a road of ice. Granted its not the exact same, but the wave is there and the radial energy absorbed and ultimately consumed by such a thin layer is more in the roll lines than in any other wheel I have skated on outdoors.

To be fair ill test them thoroughly tomorrow.
It's NOT compressive, but I can confirm that the "squirm" wave is real, and since urethane does not compress, if the TENSION stress developed from the pinch against the hub goes too high, the urethane will squirm too far circumfrentially, and then the debonding of the urethane starts to happen, along with internal damage, just as mort indicates.

Once the debonding gets wide enough it quickly spreads across the wheel and eventually around it as well. The wheels start to make a horrible sound and they suck up rolling energy too. I have plenty of RD Twisters with this debonded condition.

Attempts to re-glue them onto hubs proved futile. Perhaps a non-solvent based urethane is needed. I haven't resumed that project yet.

On a totally debonded wheel, it feels like driving a car on a flat tire. The ring of urethane starts to be dragged all the way around the hub after so many revolutions (if hub has no protruding grip ribs).

Urethane gets damaged internally and swells up by ~5% starting at edges.
I have watched a lot of wheels with too-thin urethane layer cycle through this degradation process. All had 49mm size hubs and started new at 65mm or less urethane to give 7.5-8mm layer thickness. By the time they wore down to around 62-63mm size, death was knockin' on their doors.

IMO, 10mm should be the minimum thickness for urethane layer of outdoor wheels, and that will not give much life for them either. For 500+ miles of service and the typical urethane wear that will give, a better target would be 12mm of urethane layer, so that one or two mm can be lost without sinkung below 10mm.

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Old May 21st, 2016, 10:26 AM   #23
maltoch
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before big open hub on wheels, it only exists basic wheel...like cruise or impulse witha simple hub...when wheel was used at middle size...the urethane went out of the hub.
especially when guys slided with them on rough surface ou did a lot of parrell braking at contest.
i ve seen krypto rollo....old models...not the same print on side that now...same quality ..i don t k ow and kryptoto or krypto kryto red one like krypto renthal..died the same manner.

but i ve seen more problem on inline wheels that i used very very fast...i succeed to destroy and used a inline wheel to the hub in 2 weeks...chewing gum urethane like a 70a urethane, first day i had to mix the wheels...too much used.
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Old May 21st, 2016, 01:12 PM   #24
ursle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldiloks View Post
@ursle, have you had a chance to try Adonis wheels?

Physics aside, seems like this wheel business is very much personal preference. If I was more flush, I'd buy a whole bunch of wheels and try them out
I'm sure each one has its merits.

I'm just after a smooth agile roll for my weight, on asphalt. There won't be debris hopefully, and I'll be skating when it's dry. I don't need to go at light speed, as I'll be dancing on the spot or moving at a slow roll. I want to shuffle, toe jam, spin a little.... And go from there. No hockey stops but t-stops yes. Big jumps no, transitional hops and little jumps, yes.
Looks like the adonis only goes down to 88a in hardness, still worth a try, they might wear faster than an 82a wheel but I bet they would be fun. I had some 92a wheel outdoors one time, they worked excellently but I could see material melting off them, one half hour skate and they were much smaller, and the skating surface was green (the color of the urethane)

I used to skate the roll line matrix plate, I used a 56mm 82a wheel made by earthwing, they were the bee's knees, as they are skateboard wheels I had to grind down one side to make them work(rubbed on the inside), and they turned well, but the matrix plate as excellent as it is became boring, so I moved to D/A45 plates, and a tiny wheel with D/A45's isn't necessary, so the 64mm roll line helium is now the bee's knees.

(Nobody said the helium is a race wheel, it's a wheel, very light weight, very sturdy hub, when they wear out, get some more)

maltoch
In '78 I was in LA and a guy was on the "street" selling wheels and cushions (cloud), his name was Tom Sims (passed away last year, sadly) and the wheels were GYRO, yellow 80'ish,A with an excellent chro-molly hub, boy did I put some hours in on them, actually bought two set's, had a friend visiting and he needed a set to skate with me

Last edited by ursle; May 22nd, 2016 at 12:35 AM.
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Old May 21st, 2016, 06:08 PM   #25
maltoch
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http://www.tailtap.com/gyrowheels.html

gyro 62mm 97a....should we consider these wheels as quad wheel.?

i must say the idea of metal hub is a good idea...but for the rest.
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Old May 21st, 2016, 08:56 PM   #26
ursle
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Something more down these lines



yer quotes...

i tested sims 15 years ago and velvet or two tones one already existed but i ride them 1 day and sold them...too small diameter but too little contact patch...straight edges and bad urethane so....the myth is dead in my spirit.

you know the sims wheels were used for snakes boards, uk boards.....weren't produced at first for classic skate boards and quads at all...
i think the success came from the wheel choice in the 90s ....compared to krypto impulse or the beginning of cruise, maybe they fought with them and krypto rollo and they were ok....but for me the quality isn t really better than an poor impulse wheel.

large hub like on velocity race for jump....someone that do high jump will destroy them very fast because of the hub itself...
SHOW ME

I'm just saying, in in '78, Sims released the first great outdoor wheel, today, a large hub, thin urethane are the norm, but 40 years ago, it was good....

Last edited by ursle; May 22nd, 2016 at 12:54 AM.
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