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Old June 20th, 2015, 11:29 PM   #1
rollerblader2014
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Default Double push

Anybody else use this technique?

Last edited by rollerblader2014; July 6th, 2015 at 04:55 PM.
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Old July 19th, 2015, 09:12 PM   #2
Tumblena109
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Default double push

What is the double push?
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Old July 19th, 2015, 11:41 PM   #3
Armadillo
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Yes, all elite inline skaters use the double push, which is essential for reaching and sustaining the highest speeds.

As a quad only outdoor (distance) speed skater, I have come to realize that I must also master this technique if I expect to reach my highest potential level of performance. I am starting to gain proficiency doing it at the basic level, but I am a long way from being fully polished and efficient with it.

The key thing to grasp, as a context for understanding the how and why of the double push, is that once you are rolling at a decent speed on skates, NONE of your push strokes should be directed rearward at all, and at all times your down and rolling skate needs to be tracking an arc shaped path.

The double push effectively enhances the path of the down skate to be an S-shaped DOUBLE arc of travel, instead of a single arc.

To make this happen, the up skate is laterally directed across the body. as it heads back down, toward a point near to just below the opposite shoulder before it touches back down on the rolling surface.

The prior down skate's leg push stroke ARC has just accelerated your body laterally inward as it carved an an outward arc path, and the lateral body momentum caused by that prior down leg push must now be "caught" (and reversed) by the the other leg's up skate as it touches back down onto the surface.

At that point, the body is both traveling and leaning in the opposite direction to where the next push needs to move/lean it, but as the up skate touches down (under the opposite shoulder), rather that angling it straight ahead or back opposite to the body's lateral motion, instead it is slightly angled toward the SAME direction as the body is already leaning/moving, and it then carves the small 1st arc (of the eventual S-curve), to catch and then reverse the lean and lateral motion from the prior push.

This small 1st arc steers the touching down skate UNDER the body in a way that it effectively becomes a brief continuation of same arc that the other leg's prior push stroke was tracking, and as a result, more energy can be extracted from the lateral body motion that the prior stroke's push arc generated.

In addition, this small inward pointed 1st arc of the S-curve also sets the lateral position of the down skate/leg as far across the body as possible, so that when the down skate's 1st arc ends and its curve reverses into the 2nd larger outward pushing arc of the S-curve, the leg position at start of the 2nd arc is fully optimized to allow the widest possible outward 2nd arc push to complete the double arc stroke.

The timing of the lateral body motions, relative to the timing of where along the double arc S-curve shape of the double push stroke, becomes the primary concern for getting the maximum extra energy with this technique.

Both the upper body and the arms need to continue their prior stroke direction at the early & mid stage of the 1st small arc portion of the S-curve, and then the prior stroke's up leg must be pulled back under the body to the "click knees" point before the 1st arc of the S-curve completes.

There are a lot of motions that need to synchronize for the double push stroke to work most effectively. I currently have a hard time doing them all at once in proper sync. I can concentrate on certain ones individually and get them decent, but I still can't combine all of them working together properly at the same time.

To review, the double push stroke follows an S-curve shaped double arc path having a smaller 1st arc that acts like an continuation/extension of the other leg's 2nd arc of its S-curve stroke path. Because this small 1st arc continues on a matching curve that parallels the prior leg stroke's 2nd S-curve arc, this allows energy to be extracted from the lateral oscillations of the body mass, and for the lateral amplitude of those mass oscillations to be maximized.

-Armadillo
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Old July 20th, 2015, 12:31 AM   #4
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Check this video out. It's actually good for all overall skating technique. The explanation of the double push starts at 11:32 of the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0ZNmMlRTB8
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Old July 20th, 2015, 05:36 AM   #5
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckboucher View Post
Check this video out. It's actually good for all overall skating technique. The explanation of the double push starts at 11:32 of the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0ZNmMlRTB8
Lol...good call...almost 15 years later and still the go-to guide...

don't burn out

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Old July 20th, 2015, 07:06 AM   #6
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This is one of the best videos that shows the double push exactly as I described it above, AND it has a slow motion section to make it even more clear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTHvlyW6aBo

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Old July 20th, 2015, 06:03 PM   #7
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Double push (DP) is a fun thing to practice, but in my experience very difficult to actually pull off in a way that makes you faster than regular speed skating technique.

It's good to practice one-foot slaloms where you ride the edge rather than "pop a wheelie" or overcarve.
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Start with very small slaloms, and work up over time to big ones like in the videos.


It helps to film yourself and compare to what good skaters do.

If you can do that smoothly without loosing speed, it means your classic technique is good, which in turn means you can start getting power from the underpush.

People kept telling me to work on my classic technique rather than DP, and I ignored them because like I said, practicing DP is fun -- and it's important that practice be fun. But there are layers and layers to classic technique, and I'm now getting up to 16mph over a 10K, still using sloppy classic technique!

I don't want to discourage anyone from doing DP, especially since I don't know your current skill level. But it's not really necessary or efficient until you can easily hold close to 17mph using classic technique, I think. The important thing is to not abandon classic technique; keep going back to it to test if you have reached the limits or just a temporary plateau.

BTW, here's an excellent video of long-track influenced classic technique: Sven Kramer & team on inlines.

But nevermind all that, have fun and practice what you enjoy doing!

Enjoy!
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Old July 20th, 2015, 07:59 PM   #8
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I have made use of this technique for a LONG time without ever knowing what it was , or even knowing it had also developed through other skaters as well.

The thing that most people seem to miss which this skill has as an added benefit to, and IMO... the reason it makes your top speed better, is because the amount of time it allows one to accelerate their leg prior to your outward strides prime power position. The inward push is more of a counter and prep for the powerful part of the stride. You dont want to spend you powerful portion of the stroke trying to accelerate your leg/ foot in an outward direction. The double push technique helps to put more speed out this way.

The other thing it does, as you transition from the inward push to the outward push is offers you the chance to snap your leg out in front a little, kind of "reaching" for ground further ahead of you. This also helps you keep your foot in a better position as you push laterally before your foot falls back too far to be of good use.


The key to this skill is how smooth you can be. You can always add speed and power as your coordination develops, but without excellent form and timing your not going to get great results.
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Old July 21st, 2015, 03:25 AM   #9
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The key to the DP helping performance is getting the timing and speed of all the lateral movements of your various body parts to be in proper sync with the peak carve points of the two arcs of the down skates path.

Watch the slo-mo video and observe how the lateral movements of legs, arms torso, shoulders, etc are all matched up to peak of the carving of each of the two S-curve arcs that combine to make the DP stroke.

The up leg's quick lateral pull in to the "knees click spot" and the arm swing reversal timing are both tough to keep properly synced up with the both the DP carve arcs.

When you do nail it just right, you can feel the distinct surge in speed that is available from the DP.

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Old May 10th, 2016, 12:07 AM   #10
everest
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Default The perfect and most powerful double push

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmFZxNEuJH8

I watched the video links from other posts, but I still think this one is the best.

To be a double push, the detail is the outside edge is also under a push force instead of just a rolling/gliding. As you can see in this video, the outside leg push with inner side wheel, and then the inner leg ALSO PUSH with the outside of the wheel. However, this perfect double push technique actually consumes more leg muscle energy in exchange for faster speed boost, but only for short period of time and the timing has to be right, otherwise you will still end up been passed by the other skaters.
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Old May 10th, 2016, 01:25 AM   #11
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Default Entry level double "push" video for beginners

This link shows a less elite skater doing less exaggerated form of double push:
Note how, with the rather upright stance, it becomes more of a double LEAN than a double PUSH, with the alternating gravity assisting lean-falls in sync with the the peaks of the alternating arcs of each S-curve double carve.

Were he able to skate in a lower stance and recruit some additional lateral leg (push) extension to the lateral fall, along with some alternating lateral arms/leg motions, all in sync with the peaks of the two opposing carve arcs, there would be a lot more speed increasing energy developed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FshoSr1qF9w

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