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Artistic Skating Forum Discussions about any topic related to artistic roller skating including quad artistic skating, inline figure skating, pairs, dance, synchronized skating, and show skating.

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Old February 22nd, 2014, 06:21 PM   #1
Ancient1
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Default Sochi Womens

I am so angry with the media starting hype about how Yuna was cheated out of gold. These are my thoughts:

1. Skating is subjective. There will be bias. Name branding is important and skaters should be prepared to get their names out there or suffer the politics of the game. What looks good to one may look different to another. One person can be looking at the technical another can be looking at creative.

2. Adelina Sotnikova had one bobble but it wasn't enough to take away her strong performance. Technically in my opinion Adelina was fast, strong, more difficult jumps and combinations and spins. Footwork was more advanced and at high speeds and she was creative and she could emote. I also gave Adelina Sotnikova the win.

3. Yuna Kim skated an almost flawless routine. It was beautiful but she had less dynamics and less difficult footwork, fewer spins and jumps that were less difficult than Adelina's. Yuna skated a beautiful routine and she was effortless and her jumps were almost perfection and her interpretation was fantastic but those things could not (in my opinion) overcome the positives of Adelina Sotnikova.

4. Both skaters were great, but I believe the call was correct. But that is just my not so humble opinion.
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Old February 22nd, 2014, 09:33 PM   #2
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Hmm... I think it'll be interesting to see what people think of this actually.

Honestly I expected Kim to win, but I felt like she didn't really want to be there. I think it was a little.. dry. It wasn't as good a performance as Sotnikova's.

However I think Kim made everything seem a lot easier than Sotnikova. This is something that my coach says to me: that even if two skaters do the same elements with the similar execution, it's possible for one to make it seem easier. Yuna just made it seem effortless: there were no edge calls, no two foots, no wobbles.

But looking at Sotnikova's previous scores, 224 points was about 50 points more than what she's got earlier in the season. Her component scores were a lot better, although the program's choreography remained the same. She hasn't just become a better skater overnight; that just doesn't happen, hence why it seemed a little far-fetched...

Plus someone posted the actual score sheets online and several judges (it's anonymous and random so you don't know which) were overly harsh on Yuna and lenient about Adelina in the GOEs. For instance one judge gave Sotnikova nearly all +3's, indicating that it was the most amazing thing they'd ever seen. It didn't seem that good to me..! And one judge gave Yuna practically all +1's or 0's, and Yuna's quality in the (perhaps easier?) elements seemed to me to be a lot better.

Having said that, Kim definitely didn't push herself. She didn't put in the harder jumps. Sotnikova had 7 triples; Kim had 6. She seemed to be playing it a little to safe on the technical score.

But several judges on the judging panel and I think the technical 'caller' who decides if jumps are cleanly landed, seemed to have grounds for bias towards Russia. Apparently one was part of the 2002 olympics judging scandal, so some say this could point to cheating.

To be honest, I don't know what to think. I can see it from both points of view and at the end of the day figure skating judging is subjective; I personally would have put Kostner above Sotnikova. I think the best thing for them to do would be to re-judge it like that petition is demanding, partly because, if Sotnikova is still the winner, then they can all stop complaining and accept that the judging was checked and fair. If Kim (or even Kostner) was found to be the 'true' winner the crisis would be resolved and again, people would accept the judging as fair.
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Old February 22nd, 2014, 10:37 PM   #3
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I have to agree with the outcome. Kim skated without energy. Her jumps though good seemed to me to be tired and listless. Sotnikova on the other hand was dynamic and full of energy. On top of that something about Yuna Kim's skating has always bored me. I did not like her choreography at all and personally I thought that they were generous even giving her the silver. I thing that it really boils down the the fact that Sotnikova was hungry and Kim was not.
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 01:15 AM   #4
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Didn't Sotnikova have a glitch in the first round as well? I think Kim was skating against Kim and lost. She did not meet or exceed the expectations of her. A layoff, then an injury, I think? Makes people wonder if she has still got it. Then a low-ish energy performance. Confirms the notion that she is a little off. Who else we got? Oh, her. Lotsa energy. Winnah!
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 02:51 AM   #5
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Hi Rufus,
It isn't just the energy level. Content weighs heavily and when the content happens it is also factored into the score. By far the jumps, spins and footwork performed by Adelina were of higher levels and were more dynamic and a lot of high level content was back loaded which also gave more points to Adelina. The fall/slip/bobble or whatever you call it was not enough to take away from the score from the content. I would say that Yuna had the advantage in grace and form, but not in content. Yuna's footwork and spins and jumps were much lower skill level (less complex) and there was more filler in the content.

As soon as I saw the fall/slip of Adelina I figured she lost the spot, but she continued and completed everything else very well and did not take it down a notch or 2. She kept the same high energy form and skill level. I did not judge where she would place till I watched Yuna. My results put Adelina as the clear winner.

Keep in mind that I skate or skated freestyle, dance and figures and I place content as extremely important. Looking graceful is good, but if the content isn't equal then there is a judgment that needs to be made as to how much the content sways the points vs the artistic score. The power speed and tenacity and ability to recover from a fall also can sway a score, or the lack thereof can sway the score.

Just looking graceful is not enough. Yuna's content was not enough.



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Didn't Sotnikova have a glitch in the first round as well? I think Kim was skating against Kim and lost. She did not meet or exceed the expectations of her. A layoff, then an injury, I think? Makes people wonder if she has still got it. Then a low-ish energy performance. Confirms the notion that she is a little off. Who else we got? Oh, her. Lotsa energy. Winnah!
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 04:14 AM   #6
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Ancient1, oh, don't think I am discounting the greater difficulty. It's just a tough call when it gets down to, easier and perfect, vs more difficult and NOT perfect.

It's all just Monday morning quarterbacking at this point, but I can't escape the thought that Kim got dinged just a bit for playing it safe, and the other girl got rewarded for pushing the envelope.

In the end, who knows? Fun fodder for speculating though.
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 04:35 AM   #7
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Rufus,
Exactly about the dinging and rewards. Still the content was delivered and it was good technically, just not effortless. You are right about a judgment call. It always is.



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Ancient1, oh, don't think I am discounting the greater difficulty. It's just a tough call when it gets down to, easier and perfect, vs more difficult and NOT perfect.

It's all just Monday morning quarterbacking at this point, but I can't escape the thought that Kim got dinged just a bit for playing it safe, and the other girl got rewarded for pushing the envelope.

In the end, who knows? Fun fodder for speculating though.
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Old February 23rd, 2014, 11:30 AM   #8
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i think the placements were correct, kims jumps werent landed as smoothly and cleanly as adelina's and her spins werent as difficult, and i think it came down to that and plus it was in russia and there is always polictics in the home country.
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Old February 24th, 2014, 02:08 AM   #9
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I understand that the Olympic committee is none to fond of subjective criteria for events, which hinders roller skating to entrance in the games. It's this type of thing that only serves to reinforce that, unfortunately.

But after watching the Olympics, my girls want to try ice skating. I fear they and I will like it more and want to switch. I've been told (by our roller coach) that ice skating is much more expensive...(and I'm not sure I believe her).
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Old February 24th, 2014, 12:14 PM   #10
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I understand that the Olympic committee is none to fond of subjective criteria for events, which hinders roller skating to entrance in the games. It's this type of thing that only serves to reinforce that, unfortunately.

But after watching the Olympics, my girls want to try ice skating. I fear they and I will like it more and want to switch. I've been told (by our roller coach) that ice skating is much more expensive...(and I'm not sure I believe her).
try it, nothing to lose, but yes ice is much more expensive then roller,,,,you have to pay higher coaching fees and also ice time. ice boots are heavier and cost more and you have to sharpen the blade more and replace it more then a plate. but you dont have to buy wheels. good luck, more reward in ice but remember as in all sports only the top do well.
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Old March 29th, 2014, 10:50 AM   #11
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Smile I agree with all of you and I think everybody is saying the same thing.

I think the Russian won. The Russian girl could never compare to the Korean girl Kim. It's known the Russian girl has no consistency, but on this day she was better. They say it was hard for Kim to skate last. It would of been different if Kim skated first and the Russian skated last.

I think the Korean girl/Kim is the best in the world has style and grace and all the elements which all skaters should aspire too, but it just goes to show you on any given day anybody could win. It gives everybody hope that some day if the cards were in your favor you could be the best.

Larry O and good post...LOL! My best always. Anybody going to Moonlight rink this weekend. Isn't there a big dance competion thier?
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