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Inline Artistic Discussions about artistic skating on inline figure skates.

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Old August 20th, 2006, 04:52 PM   #1
CHC
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Default Flat or Elliptical Wheels for Artistic Inline Skating?

I have only just recently become more serious about artistic inline skating. I've only been skating properly for a couple of months but am steadily increasing my skills and trying to do one foot spins and single jumps (not much luck yet!). I am currently using 70mm 80A elliptical wheels (the same wheels used on recreational skates), but have seen special artistic wheels available. I've also seen people using flat wheels, like those on quad skates.

I'd love to know what people think about artistic wheels, and what people are using. Do they make a big difference? And is it easier/harder to obtain good edges/control/stability with flat wheels? What about spinning?

While I'm at it, any tips for achieving decent one foot spins?

Last edited by Kathie Fry; August 22nd, 2006 at 12:50 PM. Reason: expanded title
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Old September 8th, 2006, 07:33 PM   #2
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I've had better luck with a flat wheel similar to an agressive in-line wheel fo rdoing jumps and spins. The elliptical wheel works good for dance because you can get a deeper edge, but for freestyle, I don't need a great edge but I do like having a more stable surface for landing.
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Old September 22nd, 2006, 10:53 AM   #3
tguido56
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What brand of inline skates do you have (PIC, Snow White, ...) ?
What's you body weight?
What kind of surface are you skating on (wood, linoleum, quartz, cement) ?
All these elements affect wheel choice, as well as subjective preferences do.

Maybe you use PIC skates that comes with 4 wheels 70mm 80A.
If not, maybe you have three wheel skates. In this case each wheel supports more weight than in four wheel ones, so go for higher durometer.
Even the PICs - although being four wheeled - may need a higher hardness since they are rockered and only three wheels can simultaneously touch the ground.
Wheel hardness must be somehow correlated to body weight: more weight = higher hardness.

I've never seen flat wheels on artistic inline skates. Are you talking about aggro wheels? They are almost flat, very small diameter and high hardness (90A?). Don't think they're good for footwork. Tell us if not so.

As a rule of thumb hard wheels are more slippery on smooth and lacquered-like surfaces, such as wood and linoleum. Soft wheels allow deeper edges but are slower and gummy. You should go for a compromise.

Choose the bigger diameter that fits in the frame: 72mm should fit nicely, 76mm may not and you have to check in advance. Don't be worried if the clearance between the wheels is minimal: they spin regardless of that.

About the profile I got good results with hockey wheels or slalom-freestyle wheels. They are usually round or slightly elliptic. These wheels have a smaller hub compared to normal fitness or speed wheels and this seems to give better maneuvrability and edge control.

About models and brands
Hyper and Labeda are very good. Labeda Gripper and Labeda Shooters hockey wheels (marked medium or all-purpose, equivalento to 83A) were used by the italian athletes in the World Championship few years ago. Labeda changed its product line since then, but the brand in general is still good.
Hyper has a line of wheels marked +Grip. A truly non-slipping urethane with optimumm speed and long life. The Hyper Freedom Concrete+Grip comes in several diameters, hardness 84A, round profile, maybe available only on the European market. It is one of the wheels suggested by the G.R.I.P. artistic inline skating school in Paris - France. The Hyper Hyperformance+Grip is only 76mm and 80mm 83A, slightly elliptic and larger hub. The Hyper Pro 250 hockey wheel comes in 72mm and 76mm, 82A and 84A, round profile, a bit slower than the +Grips.

At the moment I use Hypers, an out-of-stock model: Power Edge hockey 84A. Very similar to the Freedom Concrete and Pro 250: same brand, same hub, same profile, same hardness. I use 72mm in front and 2 x 76mm for center and back wheels.
My technique is quite poor, so I cannot tell very much about spins and jumps.
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Old October 12th, 2006, 06:49 AM   #4
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I tried skating on some Triax inlines a few years ago. I discovered that I prefer quads I did try several different wheels and ended up with the power edge 72mm 86A wheels. I liked the harder wheels. On some Recreational skates I use indoors for fun I skate on 76mm indoor speed wheels. I found the speed wheels rolled much better then hockey wheels of the same size. I guess the speed wheels had more rebound and the hockey wheels were designed to hold up to hard skating.

I was looking at photos of WC Inline skaters and they seem to be on a variety of different wheels. Some prefered softer wheels that looked like hockey wheels in the 80A range. However a few of the top skaters, using 3 wheel skates, were rolling on semi rounded profile wheels and 88A or harder.

There aren't many inline Artistic wheels available. If I were to try inline again I would seriously consider "Resizing" some 76mm or 80mm / 90-95A indoor speed wheels on a lathe into 70mm - 72mm semi round wheels.

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Old October 12th, 2006, 11:13 AM   #5
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I tried skating on some Triax inlines a few years ago. I discovered that I prefer quads I did try several different wheels and ended up with the power edge 72mm 86A wheels. I liked the harder wheels. On some Recreational skates I use indoors for fun I skate on 76mm indoor speed wheels. I found the speed wheels rolled much better then hockey wheels of the same size. I guess the speed wheels had more rebound and the hockey wheels were designed to hold up to hard skating.

I was looking at photos of WC Inline skaters and they seem to be on a variety of different wheels. Some prefered softer wheels that looked like hockey wheels in the 80A range. However a few of the top skaters, using 3 wheel skates, were rolling on semi rounded profile wheels and 88A or harder.

There aren't many inline Artistic wheels available. If I were to try inline again I would seriously consider "Resizing" some 76mm or 80mm / 90-95A indoor speed wheels on a lathe into 70mm - 72mm semi round wheels.

Bill
maybe Jayson being a world class inline single champion a few times can put his spin on this, plus he teaches and would have great insight with this subject.

Rick
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Old October 14th, 2006, 04:41 PM   #6
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maybe Jayson being a world class inline single champion a few times can put his spin on this, plus he teaches and would have great insight with this subject.

Rick
I sent an email to Jayson asking him that if and when he gets the chance to visit this conversation, that is opinon would be greatly appreciated.
I'd like to know as well
Liz
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Old October 15th, 2006, 04:19 PM   #7
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I sent an email to Jayson asking him that if and when he gets the chance to visit this conversation, that is opinon would be greatly appreciated.
I'd like to know as well
Liz
Hi Gang,

Jayson replied to my email. I wasn't really clear in the first email as to wether I was asking about Quads or Inlines (my bad), but I'll tell you what he said.

He's not exactly sure what his are called, but there is a photo of them on www.custominlines.com . It looks as though he may be on a flatter wheel.

For quads, he's always liked the Giotto 49 or 54d in the Panther or Musthang range. Now, I don't know if that is a width or hardness. Maybe one of you can decipher?

I was a little more specific in my follow-up to him. There seems to be another similar discussion going on as well. Maybe if he gets the chance he'll visit the forum

Skate on,
Liz
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Old October 15th, 2006, 10:35 PM   #8
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FLAT!!! for me there is no other option!! anyone who skates on the V1 has the flat wheel ... hence the ability to spin
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Old October 16th, 2006, 04:38 PM   #9
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Default Answers and more questions!

Hi everyone,

Thanks so much all your useful comments.

I was using PicSkates up until a couple of weeks ago. I changed to Snow Whites because I wasn't winning with one-foot spins and everyone seems to use the 3-wheel models. The PicSkates have elliptical wheels (72mm, 80A I think), but I'm using flatter wheels on my Snow Whites (68mm, 84A Pleasure Tool, which is what Greg Lane fits out on his V1 Custom Inlines). I've noticed two major things with the flatter wheels:

1. Really crap edges
- I guess a sacrifice for stability in freestyle
- I've also just been told that edges aren't that important in jumps/spins (though I do wonder how judges can distinguish jumps in that case e.g. flip vs lutz)

2. I can't seem to centre my 2 foot spin as well - it's like the wheels slip under me and I can't keep my feet in the one spot (they keep moving in until they're almost together and I can't balance)

I don't know if the latter is because of the higher durometer. Anyone have similar experiences/advice?

BTW, tguido56, the flat wheels I'm talking about aren't completely flat like aggro wheels. They have a curve, but very minimal. I think they are used by most artistic freestyle skaters (at least in Australia, I think).
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Old October 17th, 2006, 01:53 PM   #10
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Hi everyone,
- I've also just been told that edges aren't that important in jumps/spins (though I do wonder how judges can distinguish jumps in that case e.g. flip vs lutz).
Thanks for the wheels hints.. thou I must confess I am confused still...

As far as I could understand ... best choice are flatwheels..but they are not flat indeed...hardness is related to weright..( also to the type of surface)... but I know nothing about size...and there are so many models...and bearings...hubs,,, please... let us know good brand wheel for artistic skating..maybe the website and best dealers...would you please?

Thanks

Last edited by zerio; March 6th, 2007 at 10:43 PM.
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Old October 17th, 2006, 06:35 PM   #11
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The judges distiguish Lutz from Flip due to the direction you are skating to... Normaly a lutz is done when you jump skating clockwisely ( if you are not left handed) and a flip when you jump but you are skating unclockwisely... I guess you cannot tell anything about edges online skates just like in quad. Is that correct for you guys?

BTw, thanks for the wheels hints.. thou I must confess I am confused still...

As far as I could understand ... best choice are flatwheels..but they are not flat indeed...hardness is related to weright..( also to the type of surface)... but I know nothing about size...and there are so many models...and bearings...hubs,,, please... let us know good brand wheel for artistic skating..maybe the website and best dealers...would you please?

Thanks

Zecarlos
Rio
i think the flip and lutz you have wrong, it has nothing to do with direction of the jump, left or right but with the edge you take off of, the flip would be flat and usually is done straight up or across the floor, the lutz should be off an outer edge (although many dont) and usually done in the corner by either lefty or righty skaters.

sorry i dont know much about inlines but jayson can help you i am sure.

Rick
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Old October 17th, 2006, 06:46 PM   #12
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Yup Rick your right . If we were talking about ice it would be much easier to tell about edges...Ive already heard theres no real lutz on quads...due to the lack of edges... PLEASE, note that for me who has english as a second language is not easy to express myself clearly at all times and frequentely there are misunderstandings. So am re writting this posting.

IMHO , since we cannot state the edges easily the only way to ensure a lutz is would be to use the following trick: to skate clockwise( if you are not left handed) and to jump Lutz.( try it out).. as you can tell, in this circumstances when you take off you are obliged to use the outside edge, so, you can get it much easier . THEN you can move to the next level getting a straight line right after you skate clockwise and then the hardest level....any straight line..but definitely , the first choice is the easiest way to do the lutz... thou...it was a concept which Id learnt there in US when I took coach to Ron Sabo & World CH Michel Obrecht while in Rio...BTW, almost 30 years ...ONLY!!! .

BTW, theres a jump which has been sorta forggoten by most skaters...I dont even know how to spell it but its an axel which you land with your left foot... does any one recall the name??? Its pretty complicated and does not fit in most jump sequences..I believe its Bockel or school... Does anyone know what I am talking about?

Thanks.

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Old October 18th, 2006, 12:25 AM   #13
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Yup Rick your right . If we were talking about ice it would be much easier to tell about edges...Ive already heard theres no real lutz on quads...due to the lack of edges... PLEASE, note that for me who has english as a second language is not easy to express myself clearly at all times and frequentely there are misunderstandings. So am re writting this posting.

IMHO , since we cannot state the edges easily the only way to ensure a lutz is would be to use the following trick: to skate clockwise( if you are not left handed) and to jump Lutz.( try it out).. as you can tell, in this circumstances when you take off you are obliged to use the outside edge, so, you can get it much easier . THEN you can move to the next level getting a straight line right after you skate clockwise and then the hardest level....any straight line..but definitely , the first choice is the easiest way to do the lutz... thou...it was a concept which Id learnt there in US when I took coach to Ron Sabo & World CH Michel Obrecht while in Rio...BTW, almost 30 years ...ONLY!!! .

BTW, theres a jump which has been sorta forggoten by most skaters...I dont even know how to spell it but its an axel which you land with your left foot... does any one recall the name??? Its pretty complicated and does not fit in most jump sequences..I believe its Bockel or school... Does anyone know what I am talking about?

Thanks.



RIO
Ze Carlos
Carlos your english is just fine, yes your right the other axel u are referring to is the bockel (spelling i am not sure of),,,,also there is a coolidge, spelling again lol,,,,,,,,,,,,the lutz is easily done on quads, its just most skaters dont do it anymore,,,,,,just hold the outer edge and toe off.

Rick
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Old October 18th, 2006, 01:45 AM   #14
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Carlos your english is just fine, yes your right the other axel u are referring to is the bockel (spelling i am not sure of),,,,also there is a coolidge, spelling again lol,,,,,,,,,,,,the lutz is easily done on quads, its just most skaters dont do it anymore,,,,,,just hold the outer edge and toe off.

Rick
Hi Rick and List... you gotta be joking with me...firstly My English is not that good...thou , believe me I do my best.. secondly...LUTZ is easily done in QUADS??WHEN?? HOW?? C mon..everyone knows its normally the hardest jump...everyone knows that even on ice luts is the last jump to be achieved(except for axel)..its just the same on quads..I mean..much more difficult due to the difficult to get the edges as they are not that evident as on ice..(ok..just IMHO)

Still I prefer the trick to do the lutz... skate clockwise...(lol)

Talking about jumpings..how about Ribber( spelling??)?? Do you know it?

My favourite jump has always been Salchow..to me its the easiest one...and the impossible for me..is heel camel...oh one more problem I have...inside backwards spins...believe it or not.got no pro with outside forward thou... who knows someone can explain it why?? :-)

Hey Rick are u part of the US team coming down for quad skating competition during the Panam Games?

Vivre la differtence..vivre la vie!!

Tchau Amigos..

Last edited by zerio; March 6th, 2007 at 10:42 PM.
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Old October 18th, 2006, 02:19 AM   #15
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Hi Rick and List... you gotta be joking with me...firstly My English is not that good...thou , believe me I do my best.. secondly...LUTZ is easily done in QUADS??WHEN?? HOW?? C mon..everyone knows its normally the hardest jump...everyone knows that even on ice luts is the last jump to be achieved(except for axel)..its just the same on quads..I mean..much more difficult due to the difficult to get the edges as they are not that evident as on ice..(ok..just IMHO)

Still I prefer the trick to do the lutz... skate clockwise...(lol)

Talking about jumpings..how about Ribber( spelling??)?? Do you know it?

My favourite jump has always been Salchow..to me its the easiest one...and the impossible for me..is heel camel...oh one more problem I have...inside backwards spins...believe it or not.got no pro with outside forward thou... who knows someone can explain it why?? :-)

Hey Rick are u part of the US team coming down for quad skating competition during the Panam Games?

Vivre la differtence..vivre la vie!!

Tchau Amigos..

ZeCarlos

Rio

Carlos i wont be coming down for the pan am games,,,,thought my son might tryout but hes not skating now,,,,,not sure if hes going back, but i dont think so. the lutz is a difficult jump, what i meant its easy to do it correctly, up to the double lutz is down correctly off the outside edge by many skaters. the triple lutz u see them actually do the flip more often, the italians do a good triple lutz for the most part. the 3loop use to be the hardest triple next to the 3 axle but now that everybody does it off a toestop and in combo so much it has become less difficult,,,,only seen a couple of people actually attempt or do a 3loop off of the edge.


the 3 salchow is easier because along with the inner edge most people also take off on the toe stop,,,,,now thats a very difficult 3 jump to do on quads off an edge, the double sal u see people do off the edge but not the triple.
i dont know what the ripper is or what your trying to say, sorry.

i love the heel spin and many skaters do that quite well here in the usa and around the world. when i see the dvds or tapes from worlds many of the euro skaters are also doing a great outside heel off the right foot. not many do it here. my son does an exceptional heel spin, actually its his best spin.


as for your english, its great for a second language and i understand mostly what u are saying with no problem. i cant speak or write another language so we wont go there .

enjoy skating and have a good evening.

Rick
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Old October 18th, 2006, 03:18 PM   #16
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Hi Rick and List Members

I see what you are trying to say..I believe that we are sorta saying the samething..I was just trying to pick on you thou

The jump I meant is ribber...aka Loop...but on quads ..Ive only heard Ribber..

Because heel camels dont exist on ice and I was never able to do them anyway...Ive been looking for inline frames that can give me the closest "ice feeling" I could get...and PICs may be the one ...

Down here the artistic quad skaters are very reluctant to skate on inline frames. Inline here are normally for agressive, pipes etc..been trying to change that and since Ive been more sticked to ice in the past( thou before that I was a quad skater) I want to use the frames that have the most ice feeling...but I believe that now I can get the feeling out of most skaters postings... quad skaters abroad have been encouraged to try artistic inline...and so theyve been lookin for the smoothest transition and it may explain some equipment choices... you may know you cannot do Heel camels using a 4 wheel inline like PICs ( just like on ice skates)...and since heel camels make good score... it may add one more reason and it heps to explain why PIcs are not the most pop at Contests..well, again..this is only IMHO and my interpretation from what I could read around...

Pay a visit to our skating website http://www.ciadospatins.com.br , there are few online translators that can help you a bit in regard to translation..thou they are poor indeed.

Best

Last edited by zerio; March 6th, 2007 at 10:42 PM.
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Old October 18th, 2006, 05:11 PM   #17
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Hi Rick and List Members

I see what you are trying to say..I believe that we are sorta saying the samething..I was just trying to pick on you thou

The jump I meant is ribber...aka Loop...but on quads ..Ive only heard Ribber..

Because heel camels dont exist on ice and I was never able to do them anyway...Ive been looking for inline frames that can give me the closest "ice feeling" I could get...and PICs may be the one ...

Down here the artistic quad skaters are very reluctant to skate on inline frames. Inline here are normally for agressive, pipes etc..been trying to change that and since Ive been more sticked to ice in the past( thou before that I was a quad skater) I want to use the frames that have the most ice feeling...but I believe that now I can get the feeling out of most skaters postings... quad skaters abroad have been encouraged to try artistic inline...and so theyve been lookin for the smoothest transition and it may explain some equipment choices... you may know you cannot do Heel camels using a 4 wheel inline like PICs ( just like on ice skates)...and since heel camels make good score... it may add one more reason and it heps to explain why PIcs are not the most pop at Contests..well, again..this is only IMHO and my interpretation from what I could read around...

Pay a visit to our skating website http://www.ciadospatins.com.br , there are few online translators that can help you a bit in regard to translation..thou they are poor indeed.

Best

Zecarlos

RIO

Carlos i see what you are saying, on inlines now they even do a heel, but i think you will need the flatter wheel to do it effiently. thanks for the website, is that site in spanish or portugese????? have fun skating and its good talking with you.

most of our quad skaters also resist the inlines, my son wont skate on them but has a pair of the pics from when they first came out they wanted him to try them. he did and didnt like them, that was the end of them lol. in quads we call the loop the loop here in the usa, i never heard of ribber, is that a spanish or portugese word?

Rick
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Old October 18th, 2006, 07:33 PM   #18
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Carlos i see what you are saying, on inlines now they even do a heel, but i think you will need the flatter wheel to do it effiently. thanks for the website, is that site in spanish or portugese????? have fun skating and its good talking with you.

most of our quad skaters also resist the inlines, my son wont skate on them but has a pair of the pics from when they first came out they wanted him to try them. he did and didnt like them, that was the end of them lol. in quads we call the loop the loop here in the usa, i never heard of ribber, is that a spanish or portugese word?

Rick
Ribber was supposed tobe a foreign word...first time I heard ribber was in US and on ice down here... nowadays the kids say loop..( Globalization effect.. )

Yup I can tell thatmost quiad skates dont likePics in the other hand the ice skaters who tried them dont have that cons.

Yet, I am confused... Im hoping to decide till the end of the year... before I get too old to skate...and kids call me greatgreatdad.... but I want to volunteer coaching downhere... artistic coach , reduce prejudice, all in all, to educate folks... while I enjoy myself.

Thank yall

Last edited by zerio; March 6th, 2007 at 10:40 PM.
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Old October 19th, 2006, 02:48 AM   #19
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The website is in Portuguese,We speak Portuguese in Brazil.

Well ,ribber was supposed tobe a foreign word...first time I heard ribber was in US and on ice down here... nowadays the kids say loop..( Globalization effect.. )

Yup I can tell thatmost quiad skates dont likePics in the other hand the ice skaters who tried them dont have that cons.

Yet, I am confused... Im hoping to decide till the end of the year... before I get too old to skate...and kids call me greatgreatdad.... but I want to volunteer coaching downhere... artistic coach , reduce prejudice, all in all, to educate folks... while I enjoy myself.

Thank yall

Jose carlos fontes

Good luck with everything Carlos, that would be nice to coach and help out where you can. most quad skaters like the 3 wheels instead of the 4.

Rick
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Old October 19th, 2006, 01:43 PM   #20
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Hi List and Rick

I made a mistake in my previous email...I was trying to say that first time I heard LOOP I was abroad..( right there in USA )..before 77 ribber was the designation for Loop...perhaps quad skaters in the 70s..( grandpa like me ) could have some hint..I was just curious anyway... I am also tryign to remember another jump which I havent mentioned yet...besides Boeckell( sp??)

Best to yall

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