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Old October 5th, 2009, 07:30 AM   #1
chaos4ever
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Default How long should you give a passing notice before actually passing?

So, in reading the other thread about the unfortunate incident involving the death San Jose woman after falling from being tangled up in a set of dog leashes, a question (perhaps unrelated) popped into my mind: How long should you give pedestrians notice in passing them? I generally give a 2-3 second notice. Is this too short for pedestrians to react?
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Old October 5th, 2009, 02:42 PM   #2
Bill in Houston
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Depends how clueless they are.

A good solid runner on the right edge with no earbuds - 2 seconds is plenty. (Two real seconds - one thousand one, one thousand 2)

A guy with a dog on a retractable leash walking in the middle of the path - hit the brakes and give him 8 or 10 seconds, and be ready to bail if he doesn't get it.

I'm looking for a little dingy bell to bring along. It seems like it might get a better response? Plus, to give 3 seconds warning to a walker, I would have to yell, and I know that some people would get huffy about me "yelling at them".
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Old October 6th, 2009, 02:02 AM   #3
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it depends on my rate of travel and my ability to react if i have to. Going fasst, i have to react sooner to avoid a collision, so i sound off sooner when going faster. Under normal training speeds, i sound off when i'm about 12 feet from overtaking the individual, if a walker or runner, and if they have leashes or a child to grapple with, i give them more of a warning than that.

If i'm really flying, sometimes i give them two warnings, one from maybe twenty feet away and a quieter one (like a 'thank you') as i am just about to pass them. This also works well when passing bikes because it's hard to gauge exactly when they will be passed.
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Old October 6th, 2009, 02:11 AM   #4
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I'll admit that sometimes I give the warning later when someone appears clueless. If that person is already to the right side of the trail, it's probably safer for everyone if they don't have the chance to "react." (i.e. responding to "on your left" by turning to the left in the middle of the trail to gawk & mouth-breathe, just at the right moment to ensure a collision.)

For the vast majority of people whom I pass, I give plenty of warning, and I thank them as I'm passing them.

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Old October 6th, 2009, 03:05 AM   #5
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I definitely always say "thank you" or "good morning" as i am passing. Trying to spread the skatey love...
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Old October 6th, 2009, 03:37 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by online inline View Post
it depends on my rate of travel and my ability to react if i have to......
If i'm really flying, sometimes i give them two warnings, one from maybe twenty feet away and a quieter one....
+1

There are three warnings in my book.

1) I holler before I enter a blind curve. Most times nobody is on the trail, so I am screaming for nothing. But once in a blue moon ......

2) You are passing a walker/runner/cyclist who is on the far right. You are really just being courteous to announce your presence so as not to startle them. This just has to be a few seconds before hand.

3) Serious doubts to what might happen. Dogs, kids, walkers two abreast. I yell early and often to make sure I could fully stop if they don't get my attention, or can't figure out how not to get run over by me. This can be up to 200 yards at higher speeds. (30 mph downhill on one part of the trail means I travel 600 feet in 13.6 seconds)

It doesn't hurt to yell early and often. After all nobody is billing you per every scream
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Old October 6th, 2009, 02:09 PM   #7
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I change up what I say depending on who I'm passing too. A person riding a bike in an orderly fashion, wearing an MS150 jersey, probably just gets "on your left", "thank you". A family on a Saturday morning gets, "good morning guys, i'm gonna come around on your left", "thank you, good morning, thank you". Runners running three across get a piercing whistle from a looong way off, and then the usual. For person with two huskies and a bike, I'd probably come to a complete stop and step off into the grass...
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Old October 6th, 2009, 06:04 PM   #8
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What about those people with ipods and really can't hear anything else outside of their music?

I got one of those FingerRings. It has enough ring with it's higher decibel pitch to get most of their attention but others they must have the volume at max to hear anything.
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Old October 6th, 2009, 06:54 PM   #9
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echo, echo, echo all of the above.... nothing worse than calling out "passing left" and in reaction the person you are overtaking moves 'left' directly into your path... duh-ope!

Best to be acutely aware of how people are moving as you are overtaking. are they young kids, older, in a group not paying attention, with pets, on skates, bikes, or tuned out with i-pods, etc...

My reaction is always to slow my speed as a I approach, just in case, I've learned it's better to error on the side of caution. I usually wait to see a reaction from the person after I've called out "passing left" before just blindly passing by, and use their reaction to guide my actions when passing. Mind you all this judgment call stuff happens inside a few seconds.

At our city park pathway(1-1/2 mile loop) I do not even bother to bring out my speedskates, and opt for the rec skates and keep the pace slower, as there is just too much ped litter. We still cruise laps at a moderate work-out pace, even then with noon-stop annoying and frequent passes. Knocking out 10-15 laps is common, so I usually smile and wave or say thanks as we go by, and pray with any luck when they hear me call out on subsequent laps they will get the idea to move or stay to the right. why some people feel compelled to walk or jog in the dead center of a pathway is beyond my comprehension, but we see it all the time. And, oblivion is a disease, go figure....
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Old October 7th, 2009, 04:54 AM   #10
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Hi folks,

An interesting thread. Good points, but making at least one bad assumption -that everyone has hearing that works.

Being hearing impaired at this point in my life, and wearing bi-lateral hearing aids, I can assure you there are many folks out there walking around that are hearing impaired, and some are literally Deaf. Many folks don't even know how hearing impaired they are.

No amount of "Warning" is going to help with these folks, and you can't tell just by looking at them. We don't wear "We can't Hear You" or "I'm Deaf or Hearing Impaired" signs.

Your safest bet, and everyone else's, is to assume that every body is Deaf, or just plain dumb - and will either not respond to you - or will respond in a way that will put you and them "at Risk".

Thus, slowing down and being very careful in passing, will be to everyone's benefit and safety. Been there, done that.

By the way, it's the same issue with people's eyesight. Lot's of us out there with visual impairment too, and the faster you're moving, the more difficult it is to see you, and respond appropiately. Been there, done that too.

You can not assume that everyone else has your abilities - they just don't.
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Old October 7th, 2009, 02:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skatervideoguy View Post
Hi folks,

An interesting thread. Good points, but making at least one bad assumption -that everyone has hearing that works.

Being hearing impaired at this point in my life, and wearing bi-lateral hearing aids, I can assure you there are many folks out there walking around that are hearing impaired, and some are literally Deaf. Many folks don't even know how hearing impaired they are.

No amount of "Warning" is going to help with these folks, and you can't tell just by looking at them. We don't wear "We can't Hear You" or "I'm Deaf or Hearing Impaired" signs.

Your safest bet, and everyone else's, is to assume that every body is Deaf, or just plain dumb - and will either not respond to you - or will respond in a way that will put you and them "at Risk".

Thus, slowing down and being very careful in passing, will be to everyone's benefit and safety. Been there, done that.

By the way, it's the same issue with people's eyesight. Lot's of us out there with visual impairment too, and the faster your moving, the more difficult it is to see you, and respond appropiately. Been there, done that too.

You can not assume that everyone else has your abilities - they just don't.
All true but if you go out to enjoy the trail knowing you have those disabilities you should stay to the right and expect to be passed.
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Old October 7th, 2009, 02:59 PM   #12
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Hi Again Chaos,

I have actually written about this before and I do believe I remember some of the others also entered this much older tread.

I found that people go the wrong way or any which way. Here you are wanting to go to their outside to be polite and they open the middle.

The grass run around at the last minute seems to be the only long term training solution.

If I remember correctly "Coming in on your Left" or some such forward call like in Golf might be slightly helpful. Again do not count on people and be prepared to crash and burn at their butts

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave
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Old October 7th, 2009, 03:04 PM   #13
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Excellent Passing comment,

And then they will love us cause we are polite and moving faster.
I do the same when in a car and anyone gives me an advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by online inline View Post
it depends on my rate of travel and my ability to react o - o - o -If i'm really flying, sometimes i give them two warnings, one from maybe twenty feet away and a quieter one (like a 'thank you') as i am just about to pass them. This also works well when passing bikes because it's hard to gauge exactly when they will be passed.
Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave
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Old October 7th, 2009, 05:49 PM   #14
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I only yell "PASSING". I don't do "the on the left thing" unless it's a cyclist wearing spandex on a road bike.
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Old October 15th, 2009, 02:29 PM   #15
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I tend to yell, "Up ahead!" several times, starting from pretty far back. That way, people will move in some direction or another (often they may move in different directions before making up their minds!). I often see two or more people split up the middle. As other people have written, if I yell, "On your left", they often move to the left. I like to let them decide as far in advance as possible.

I started wearing a whistle on a lanyard, but I haven't trained myself to use it yet. I don't know if it would be more effective than yelling; it's probably worth experimenting with it.

I think we tend to be very skate/bike-centric concerning the "clueless" out on the trails. After all, they are multiple-use trails, and the people out for some leisurely stroll with their friends, family, etc. have as much right to be there as we do. I don't think it's fair to expect them to be in our "race" frame of mind. Rather, we need to understand, and be respectful, that they are in a different world than we are, and we need to work around it, rather than expect that they should be accommodating for us. Work with it, and you'll have a better time out there, and you'll spread a better image of skaters & bikers.
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Old October 15th, 2009, 10:34 PM   #16
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Hi Yonah,

"I think we tend to be very skate/bike-centric concerning the "clueless" out on the trails. After all, they are multiple-use trails, and the people out for some leisurely stroll with their friends, family, etc. have as much right to be there as we do. I don't think it's fair to expect them to be in our "race" frame of mind. Rather, we need to understand, and be respectful, that they are in a different world than we are, and we need to work around it, rather than expect that they should be accommodating for us. Work with it, and you'll have a better time out there, and you'll spread a better image of skaters & bikers. "

Excellent point !!
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Old October 15th, 2009, 10:45 PM   #17
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I find that it varies, depending on how loud they have their I pods set. I like to give em a little goose as I roll by. I get a kick out of the look on their faces.
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Old October 15th, 2009, 10:50 PM   #18
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I expect folks who use the trail to be aware of the basic rules of staying to the right etc. Not taking up the whole path is just common courtesy anyway and I don't think this expectation is unreasonable or bike or skate centric.
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Old October 16th, 2009, 01:51 PM   #19
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Quote:
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I expect folks who use the trail to be aware of the basic rules of staying to the right etc. Not taking up the whole path is just common courtesy anyway and I don't think this expectation is unreasonable or bike or skate centric.
Just another point of view, even though I also get frustrated when these "clueless" people get in the way of my attempts at a personal best for the day, or whatever.

But, they are not on a highway (though we tend to think of it as our own skate/bike-Bahns), or a road, or a velodrome. They are in a recreational park. Lovers strolling together, families out for some fun time with the kids, should not necessarily be expected to hold the frame of mind that you suggest (although I would also appreciate it if they did).

If you were out as a leisurely recreational skater, you would simply work around it without the attitude, as you might work around a tree growing in the middle of the trail (without the attitude). As a result of the speeds we achieve, we represent the danger, not them (see the "us" vs. "them" thinking?), and I submit that if, G-d forbid, there were a serious collision, the skater of biker would be at fault, and in the end, possibly become more highly regulated as a nuisance.

Now, go out and skate fast, have fun, and work on that Zen acceptance thing!
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Old October 16th, 2009, 04:06 PM   #20
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When the trail reaches a certain density I don't even bother. Yesterday was ideal - fine mist falling, no one out there but me and this one walker. She was very distracted talking on her cell so I just slowed way down and inched by her and smiled. If there are more folks out there I slow down and say, "on your left" and "thank you". Usually they are heard to remark after me, "Skating, that's what I should be doing!" If there are little kids on bikes I just leave. Pets off-leash, I don't leave! I stop and tell the owner, who is unfailingly a man, that I would hate to run into and injure his little dog and could he please put it back on the leash? This approach always works.
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