Closing Rinks

[Spins]

If I have this right:

In the quest to discover why roller rinks are closing I must ask if the same number of ice rinks are closing? Probably not. Roller rinks rely on interest of the public at large and not the dedicated or organised competition skaters.

Ice skaters seem to have a steady following of a chosen. Somehow I've never gotten the impression that the public holds open the doors of ice rinks and they seem to pop up and close down wherever they are for short runs in Georgia. I realise this may all be coincidental observation if there is more to it than this.

The next issue. Immigration has always been about cheap labor be it slavery, the Irish (smaller number but with similar interests) or Mexican. As traditional populations experience a death spiral at about 2-3% a year and labor immigration increases there really should be more and more rink closures.

Can we really expect peoples from around the world to take to ballet, hockey or figure and artistic skating--no, they never have in the past. I think this is the accurate assessment of the situation. Anybody?

Gary

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[Kathie Fry]

Immigration has always been about cheap labor be it slavery, the Irish (smaller number but with similar interests) or Mexican. As traditional populations experience a death spiral at about 2-3% a year and labor immigration increases there really should be more and more rink closures. Can we really expect peoples from around the world to take to ballet, hockey or figure and artistic skating--no, they never have in the past.

I hope you are not trying to blame the increased number of roller skating rink closures in the United States on immigrants. There are millions of people in the United States, who have been here for many generations, who could support our local roller skating rinks if they were interested in doing so. Maybe you are not aware of it, but competitive roller skating is much more popular in many South American countries then it is in the U.S. Some of the top inline speed skaters, artistic roller skaters, and roller hockey players in the world are from South America. My question is, why don't more of our long-time local residents skate at our local rinks? If they did, those rinks would not be closing.

- Kathie

[fablemaker2]

I blame the internet. People spend too much of their time reading about skating and not enough time doing it (Sorry, Kathy )

I remember when I was a kid, there just weren't as many choices for "unsupervised" social interaction with other young teens. Valley Roller Rink was one of the few where I could go until 11pm that my parents could simply not worry about me.

[Spins]

"I hope you are not trying to blame the increased number of roller skating rink closures in the United States on immigrants."

"Blame" is a pretty strong word and sets a moral high ground. If I were to use such a word it would have to apply to those passing laws and controlling culture for the decrease in traditional population. Such has always had a percent supporting the arts (sports in this case) as they've existed.

"There are millions of people in the United States, who have been here for many generations, who could support our local roller skating rinks if they were interested in doing so."

The current immigration as with those of the past is they are true "wage-slaves" on the lowest scales of social spending. Take for instance the descendants of slaves in Dixie. I don't see them filling the competition ranks.

"Maybe you are not aware of it, but competitive roller skating is much more popular in many South American countries then it is in the U.S. Some of the top inline speed skaters, artistic roller skaters, and roller hockey players in the world are from South America."

This is an area I'm not all that versed on so I'll have to take it on its face. Once we experience greatly reduced standards of living in America then all things may even out. I'm experiencing terrible pressure from my company to take less pay because recent immigrants will work for $15 dollars less per per $60 work order. I'm sure that once they find a body in my geographic area they will call on such lower paid techs more often. Technically, they have to a catch-up to do but the gap is closing. This situation is driving real wages down all over America for those with roots of hundreds of years.

"My question is, why don't more of our long-time local residents skate at our local rinks? If they did, those rinks would not be closing."

I suspect that in any given sport gradually declines in interest as does the overall population. It may be like firemen because those dedicated to such are fewer than we might guess. A fireman can't understand why anyone wouldn't want to be one but I suspect skaters are an even smaller number overall.

Kind regards,

Gary

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[Kathie Fry]

<< Take for instance the descendants of slaves in Dixie. I don't see them filling the competition ranks >>

If you are talking about the U.S. black population, it sounds like you are also not aware they are one of the biggest support groups for U.S. roller skating rinks, and they have been for many many years. Why would you want to make the shut down of roller skating rinks a problem related to race or ethnic origin? We should be trying to figure out how to get our kids out from in front of television sets and computer games and into roller skating rinks. If more parents got their kids involved in skating, there would be more skaters and more rinks. Why aren't those parents doing it? How can we encourage them to do it?

- Kathie

[Spins]

<< Take for instance the descendants of slaves in Dixie. I don't see them filling the competition ranks.>>

"If you are talking about the U.S. black population, it sounds like you are also not aware they are one of the biggest supporters of U.S. roller skating rinks, and they have been for many many years."

Yes, we have several of these roller rinks in the Atlanta area but it should be noted I've never meet a competition skater out of one though individuals from those rinks have visited. The North end of my county is going through this demographic change.

"Why would you want to make the shut down of roller skating rinks a problem related to race or ethnic origin?"

When one uses the observation of shutting down roller rinks with the phrase of being "a problem related to race" it can be seen as an oversimplification of rinks in transition. These rinks are changing hands and not always closing, however, interest or desire in organised competitive skating is either not there or not transfering to a "changing" rink.

"We should be trying to figure out how to get our kids out from in front of television sets and computer games and into roller skating rinks."

Many of these kids are doing baseball, scoccer and other sports and I suppose many their coaches see those more sedate forms of entertainment, as you've noted, as their electronic adversaries ruining the American scene too.

"If more parents got their kids involved in skating, there would be more skaters and more rinks. Why aren't those parents doing it? How can we encourage them to do it?"

I recall seeing more than one ice competition on television in the last three to four months and that is where you could have found our family. Polls show that public of viewing skating on television is always high. My five-, nine-, and 11-year-old were watching right along with me. It is admitted that we never have seen a roller competition on television. I would enjoy it.

Kind regards,

Gary

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[Gr8Sk8er]

One of the reaons I like roller skating is that I can do it on a whim. All I need to do is lace up and head out to the local court with my iPod. I like to go to the local rink ( The Golden Skate ), but I gotta tell you they make most of their money from birthday parties. It makes it a little harder to find like minded skaters, but I do not think skating is in decline. It is one of the least expensive modes of exercise out there. A good pair of skates will last you a couple decades.

What I hope will happen is that, like "skateparks" which are geared towards skateboards, communities will do something similar to what they've done is SF, that is, create outdoor skating facilities - big smooth surfaces. This is not to put skating rinks out of business, only open up the sport to more people.

Myself, I learned how to skate on the Boston Esplanade. There were all kinds of skating shops around the area. It wasn't hard at all to find a decent skate at a reasonable price when I got tired of renting.

[LezSk8]

Skaters in our area are using the public bike trails rather than the skate rinks. I checked on a rink recently because rain, heat, and humidity were playing havoc with my summertime skating. There were few open session, you need to call ahead, because as stated previously, the rinks make their money off parties. Open sessions were mainly teens with a few families and very few fast skates. The speed team that practices there is not large and have to charge members more than I would want to pay on a regular basis. I decided to skip the rink and stick to the trails, but I hope rinks will find enough business to keep the doors open because it was great going to the rink as a kid and teenager. Maybe a focus group or target marketing would help the rinks draw more inliners. One rink in the area has a "senior citizens" quad skate several times a week in the mornings. Way to go!

LezSk8

[Bill]

Here are a few thoughts to consider.

Property values have increased several times along with rents, and the cost of running a rink keeps going up. Opening up a new rink is very expensive, everytime a rink closes it's gone forever.

Most Competitive skaters, are not going to roller rinks they are ice skating. Your "tradishional" skaters are probablly on ice skates.

The few sucessful rinks in my area owe their sucess to session skaters. Session skaters and parties pay the bills and help keep rink based skating like Artistic and Speed affordable.

I prefer to focus my energy on promoting the sport at all levels and to all people. Roller Skaters come in all colors, shapes, sizes and I like it that way.

Bill

[skaterdog]

I have 4 rinks within a 25 minute drive of my house. The closest one to me is about 5 blocks away.

A new rink about 20 miles away was opened last year by a former member of our speed team who had a dream to own and operate his own rink. He has done a great job getting folks into his rink and also caters to the speed skaters. Check out the schedule at sonicskate.com. He also has adult sessions.

He bought a rink that had closed many years ago and was turned into a flea market/Bingo place. He was able to salvage some of the floor and rebuilt the rest.

I think his success shows that with the right business plan rinks can be profitable.

The rink closest to me was getting so crowded on Saturday nights that many people were turned away at the door. Then there was some shooting in the parking lot on a Saturday night last winter and they decided that they wouldn't offer Saturday night sessions anymore because of the type of crowd it appealed to.

[Ice Ramps]

The bottom line is not in my opinion even remotely linked to immigrants, I am currently assigned to an army base in Sierra Vista, AZ in Cochise County a huge cross over area for illegals, what I have seen from a ice rink in Tuscon (Tuscon Ice) is that 40-50% of thier public sessions are dominated by Hispanics some of which speak little to no English, however they paid to skate and they are enjoying themselves too. The rink staff is incredible, they have instructors Hockey as well as figure standing by most all sessions with tables giving free lessons, and passing out coupons and the like. The more successful rinks like this one, are ones that go out be aggressive with schools, child care facilities, gyms, rec centers, etc and constantly attempt to bring new business in. one roller rink I know prints the local schools lunch menu out for them (which save the school lots of money) and the menues also has the rink schedule on the back with coupons. Things like this are what will help keep a rink stay open. The whole open the doors and whoever shows up shows up mentality will doom a rink because the teens grow get jobs, BF/GF, go off to school whatever and if you are not grooming the next generation well you get the idea..... I have even seen a rink print a coupon on a frisbee with thier address and phone numbers on them, and go out flinging them around to people in public parks if someone brings the frisbee back to the rink to "cash-in" well you can throw it out again later. Not saying that is the solution but it re-enforces my point you have to draw people in not just sit back and wait. My two cents for what it is worth.

Dale Campbell
www.iceramps.com

[Amy's_Keeper]

Maybe I see things differently then some of you because I'm more or less a kid still.
Teenagers now would rather put on puffy shoes and grab a skateboard and fit in then go to a skating rink and go in circles(I've made so many NASCAR jokes, just to realize I miss skating in circles at a skating rink ) Without teenagers and kids that want to go to roller rinks, they aren't going to have parties, or have enough people to even scrape out a living. Skateboarding is killing it, they aren't the only thing that's doing it though, just the one group of people I choose to blame.
Like I said, maybe I just see things from that perspective because I get hassled by them all the time.

[artisan555]

well i have to say that it's hard to make a blanket statement when it comes to reasons for rink closures. i was just talking to the general manager of the rink i go to. he has just returned from the rink owner's association convention where he was a keynote speaker regarding rink operations. now his conclusions are from having met rink operators from all over the united states and canada, and generally he feels that most rink owners don't understand marketing. he thinks there are two mind-sets.

the first mind-set seems to be owners who are stuck in some past time; where they run their rinks like it's still the 1970's. many rinks haven't redecorated in years and they look very much as they did twenty or thirty years ago. they don't play modern music, they simply don't appeal to modern tastes. many rink owners refuse to market to new skaters.

the second mind-set seems to be owners who have inherited the business from their families, and they just don't care.

now having said that; from my personal experience, skating in los angeles, rinks here are doing great. i skated tonight (saturday) and we had about 450 skaters. the ethnic mix was pretty much equally white, latino, african-american, middle eastern and a few asians (myself included! hehehe). the age range was also pretty equal across the board. young children, tween-agers, teens, twenty-somethings, thirty-somethings, and us old-schoolers. the friday night skate is generally over 500 skaters, but it's all teens and twenty-somethings-all ethnic backgrounds. now our tuesday nights are adults only night (21+), and for years it was just older adults trying to relive their teen years with 70's and 80's music. but in the last two years tuesday nights have been re-made into EVERY adult taste so we've attracted the local college kids (the 21 year old rule is bent. . . it's not a hard rule; it's not like we're drinking in there or something hahaha).

so what's the secret? i think it's smart marketing. like every other business in the world you have to spend money to make money. this rink is always re-modeling. looking at pictures of this place over the last 50 years, it's never looked the same for more than 10 years at a time. right now we have flat screen monitors on every wall, great wall treatments, laser lights, new rental skates, new carpet. jam skaters work it in the middle of the rink most nights. there's dance skating, artistic skating sessions, speed skaters come on adult nights and so do roller derby girls. it's just modern. they advertise at elementary schools, middle schools, high schools and colleges. you keep a business alive by being in the present, not in the past.

now about the ethnic angle, let me just reiterate; where i skate EVERYONE skates, and pretty much in equal numbers. "minorities" don't skate? give me a break. if you think african-americans don't skate, check out the rink in central los angeles. mostly african-american skaters, the place has been in business for way over twenty years; it's more popular today than ever. some of the best skaters i've ever seen. check out the dance circle in venice beach. the hottest skaters on the west coast, black, hispanic, white, they're all there.

so if a rink is failing, it's either a management problem, or it's a victim of circumstance beyond it's control like zoning or something.

that's what i think. rinks rule.

[Spins]

"now having said that; from my personal experience, skating in los angeles, rinks here are doing great. i skated tonight (saturday) and we had about 450 skaters. the ethnic mix was pretty much equally white, latino, african-american, middle eastern and a few asians (myself included! hehehe)."

It seems that as with blacks here, minorities do skate but more often where their numbers dominate communities they live in and with good marketing. This certainly does change the state-wide perspective in Georgia as we are filling up with Latins, Orientals and the rest but they don't go skating and certainly the black rinks never have supplied competition skaters that I know of. It is kind of like mountain climbing and other higher risk sports but in the inheritance of those things American--it does appear by these posts skating rinks will go on in some form or another.

Interesting.

Gary

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[fablemaker2]

I agree with Artisan555. Our rink opens at 12 and closes at 4 most days, and has hockey on Wednesdays. On a Saturday, they could at least stay open til 8, yeah? They've got a skatepark outside that is not maintained well. They could attract lots of revenue (at $5/hour), but don't choose to put in any effort to get there.

And the Nascar thing...going around in circles has always bored me if I didn't have anyone to talk to, or I had some sort of skill to work on. However, I once got 'warned' for doing 360's in the flow of traffic. I once told the manager that he should alternate the direction of traffic - so he wouldn't be producing a generation of skaters who could only turn left. He said "that's the way it's always been done, so that's the way we're keeping it."

And, yes, I always feel like I'm going to run into the prototype for "Shaggy" when I go there

[Kathie Fry]

<< black rinks never have supplied competition skaters that I know of. It is kind of like mountain climbing and other higher risk sports >>

Maybe you don't know any black or latino artistic, vert, or speed skaters, but most of us know plenty of them. Sorry Spins, but we just aren't going to go there anymore. Let's move this topic right now from blaming "immigrants" for the demise of competitive skating to a discussion of how we can get more people skating, recreationally and competitively.

- Kathie

[Bill]

Gary,
You need to get out more!

In the past 9 years that I've been a fan of Artistic skating the WORLD CHAMPION LADIES Singles was won by a Black American 3 times. Asian Americans have also been well represented on the USA World Team. Those are the top 3 "races" in the USA according to wikipedia with "White American" at 80.4% .

Immigrants and race groups (including the "white" race) have done such a great job if intergrating here that most people have discarded their outdated ideas of what a "tradishional" amercian is.

"Fix the problem, not the blame" a few of the skaters here have posted Ideas on how to promote skating. How to promote skating is the direction we need to go. Do you have any ideas on how to encourage new skaters and to promote the sport?

Bill

[artisan555]

and speaking of promoting skating, there has been alot of grumbling (albeit good natured) about how rinks host too many birthday parties to generate revenue. it's true, birthday parties pay a huge proportion of the bills, but guess what? birthday parties promote skating too! sure not a huge proportion of those kids come back to skate, but some do. and what's even more surprising: tons of those parents either start skating or they come back to an activity they gave up when the thought they "out grew it". they see all the adult skaters who come regularly, and some birthday parents become regulars too.

birthday parties also generate a certain amount of word-of-mouth advertising that is hard to buy otherwise.

the two rinks i go to both have seen growth in the area of adult birthday parties. its amazing. 20's to 50's have been having fun parties. sure the 20 and 30-somethings have too many "disco/retro" skate parties, but it's a hoot to see them dress up in disco attire. yikes!

and as for all those "annoying" kids skating around. we use them as an opportunity as well. you learn to maneuver around them. i've learned to do things i never, ever would have learned to do on skating trails. i can turn through very tight groups, i can spin, stop on a dime , i anticipate hazards better than i used to and i've learned to skate backwards through a dense crowd. ever wonder why rink guards are the best hockey skaters? they work the birthday parties

but again, birthday parties only work well for a rink if they are managed and marketed well.

[fablemaker2]

Some ways marketers, health promoters, and social changers could push skating:
1. It can be high or low impact aerobic exercise.
2. It can be done in many different places, free or pay.
3. It doesn't make noise - people won't complain if you skate at 5AM down their street
4. It's easy to unskate, put your shoes on, and walk onto the train, headed for work.
5. """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""", headed for school.
6. It can be competive or recreational.
7. Parents can actually join their kids.
8. Bikers can ride alongside skaters, without the need for a partner for each sport. How many football parents can play baseball while their kids are practicing unless they have a partner?
9. Many skating helmets are fitted with speakers - tunes!
10. Skating can be artistic, fast, and aggressive, all at the same time!
11. You can hold hands while skating - you get pounded if you hold hands while playing baseball.
12. Skating lessons can occur at night as well as day.
13. You can practice in the garage without waking up the house.
14. Vert ramps - 'nuff said!
15. I'm a 45-year-old man who learns from 9-year-old kids (boys and girls)!
16. I'm a 45-year-old man who sometimes looks cool to 9-year-old kids!!!!

[LezSk8]

Art... & Fab..., Good Stuff! The positive aspects of skating in it's varied venues is what we need to be telling others about.

LezSk8