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Old August 31st, 2010, 05:15 PM   #1
Kathie Fry
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Default Please Handle Buying and Selling Disputes Outside the Forum

A reminder to everybody... please handle buying and selling disputes outside the SkateLog Forum.

- kathie
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Old August 31st, 2010, 06:12 PM   #2
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If user X on the forum screws me in a deal and I want to warn others off of dealing with that person, what's the appropriate way to deal with it in the eyes of the mods?
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Old August 31st, 2010, 06:33 PM   #3
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We don't want buyers and sellers trashing each other in this forum. When we have allowed that in the past, it has caused nothing but trouble, and some very nasty and insulting he-said/she-said arguments. Some sellers even created fake user names to publicly trash their competition. If you feel the SkateLog advertising forums are not a safe place to buy and sell skates, you may be right. I personally would not buy skates from a complete stranger I knew nothing about.

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Old August 31st, 2010, 06:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogzilla View Post
If user X on the forum screws me in a deal and I want to warn others off of dealing with that person, what's the appropriate way to deal with it in the eyes of the mods?
Good question! Hey Kathy and Jessica, what do you think of adding a feedback forum? Would that mean a major restructuring/or lot's of work to implement? Or is that even a road you want to go down?
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Old August 31st, 2010, 06:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathie Fry View Post
A reminder to everybody... please handle buying and selling disputes outside the SkateLog Forum.

- kathie
Just sayin.....

If Skatelog Forum is serving as the vehicle for things being bought and sold, then any disputes should also be able to be handled via Skatelog Forum.

A simple section like this would be appropriate.

http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18
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Old August 31st, 2010, 07:03 PM   #6
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Default I have an idea....

since Kathie has stated the feedback forum did not work for X reasons before I have a proposed solution.

I've seen it done where each transaction if needed would include a middle person but required an additional handling fee.

This way if either or both of the parties have doubts there is a middle person. The goods are shipped to the middle person and the funds and or goods in trade are also.

Once the goods are confirmed to be in the shape as described then the goods are sent on their way by the middle person. It's by far not a perfect solution but an idea.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 07:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
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If Skatelog Forum is serving as the vehicle for things being bought and sold, then any disputes should also be able to be handled via Skatelog Forum.
I digress, it ain't rocket science, use paypal, pay with a credit card and possibly PM other members for private info...
This is a very low-key site and the for sale section can easily stay that way.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 07:16 PM   #8
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since Kathie has stated the feedback forum did not work for X reasons before I have a proposed solution.
Oh, I didn't know that question had already been raised, sorry.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 07:26 PM   #9
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Oh, I didn't know that question had already been raised, sorry.
I guess that's what she means when she said they allowed it before and people would create accounts just to trash other sellers. Makes sense to me only because I know some people have a hard time being honest.

I personally deal with the same people over and over for the most part, unless some other person has something, but I rarely find myself doing deals with "new" members here.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 07:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ursle View Post
I digress, it ain't rocket science, use paypal, pay with a credit card and possibly PM other members for private info...
This is a very low-key site and the for sale section can easily stay that way.
Digress all you want.....

And I agree with what you say above......

But point is, if the sight is the enabler it should be the enabler from start to finish, good or bad.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 07:59 PM   #11
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i run several other forums..if you want that held outside this arena, you should close the 'for sale' forum....or make it an "opt in" where as it is locked until you digitally sign a waiver (basically clicking a box, in your group memberships section of your profile) agreeing to participate while waving your right to post problems etc.


but actually just close the for sale forum, because turning your back to those who make this place great, and have been wronged is like shutting your eyes so you cant see the monster thats about to eat you.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 08:21 PM   #12
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i run several other forums..if you want that held outside this arena, you should close the 'for sale' forum....


but actually just close the for sale forum, because turning your back to those who make this place great, and have been wronged is like shutting your eyes so you cant see the monster thats about to eat you.
This....
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Old August 31st, 2010, 08:36 PM   #13
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Default What if...

Rather than deleting an item after it's sold we leave the thread open long enough to let the buyer leave a post once they've received the items. That way 2 things happen: 1) people will see some universal form of feedback regarding items and we can develop our understanding of what that seller's likely to be like to deal with and 2) you'd be able to review a person's "feedback" by checking their profile and examining the threads that they've started (which would be the case if they're selling).

It would all be based on some form of common courtesy (actually going back and posting "hey, got the plates today...they're great") but it's better than nothing and wouldn't require a major change.

A second idea would be for someone to simply start a thread (with "sticky") regarding feedback....seems like we could come to some universally agreed upon "good to buy from" list pretty quickly based on all of our collective experiences.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 08:38 PM   #14
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Default Don't close the "for sale" section...

Closing the "for sale" section wouldn't solve anything. People would simply post items they're looking to move in other areas of the forum (which I believe is what lead to the "for sale" section in the first place).
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Old August 31st, 2010, 08:41 PM   #15
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Default 3 in a row for me!

Not trying to dominate this thread but I just now realized how similar Malcom and my avatars are...
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Old August 31st, 2010, 09:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Closing the "for sale" section wouldn't solve anything. People would simply post items they're looking to move in other areas of the forum (which I believe is what lead to the "for sale" section in the first place).
no..you moderate that until people get the point, thread comes up...deleted...or edited to a link to the rules that now reflect how that kind of post isnt done here.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 09:13 PM   #17
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Not trying to dominate this thread but I just now realized how similar Malcom and my avatars are...
I can go home and put my Shamans on and take a pic if you like
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Old August 31st, 2010, 09:24 PM   #18
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I can see why Kathie and Jessica do not want to clutter the forum with a lot of mudslinging ... there's already enough of that when some skater doesn't get his/her way from a vendor or manufacturer.

At the same time, the Buy and Sell Section is useful to alot of us and one of the main reasons I check the forum on a daily basis.

A formal feedback tracking mechanism would probably be best, allowing both sellers and buyers to comment on and rate each other (a la eBay). I imagine, however, that this would be cumbersome to program, monitor, and maintain ...

Short of this, the moderators might consider:

1. Restricting the posting of For Sale items to members with established histories. On another forum I frequent, for instance, a member cannot sell an item until they've posted 100 times and in theory, contributed to the online community. BS posts don't count and even after 100 posts, members have to petition the moderators for permission to sell.

2. Prohibiting links to other venues where items are sold (.. such as eBay auctions ..), other forums or classifieds.

3. Requiring that sellers provide a valid phone number, which could be made available to buyers and used to facilitate a sale or any necessary follow-up.

I'm sure there are other small steps that could be taken to better ensure positive transactions between skaters.

In the end, however, caveat emptor.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 11:19 PM   #19
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So, uh, I guess I prompted this discussion. I was involved in a deal that went bad and when it first became apparent there was something screwy going on, I posted a thread that was more or less, "Hey, has anyone heard from x lately? I'm waiting to find out about y." The thread was civil - if sad - for awhile, and then got nasty this week. I drew it to Kathie and Jessica's attention and asked that it get locked, since new additions to the thread weren't serving any purpose but to get people worked up.

FWIW, I think there's a difference between mudslinging ("OMG, so-and-so ripped me off and has this weird fungal condition and deserves to never be able to skate again") and statements of fact and/or warning ("I paid x person for y goods on z date and haven't yet received them - be cautious if you are dealing with them"), or soliciting information ("Does anyone have contact details for so-and-so? I can't get hold of them with the details I have"). And I really don't have a problem with the latter two. It's just boorish behaviour that becomes a problem.

But you know, I don't think there really IS a way to stop problems like this occurring in a forum like this - all we can hope for is a way to stop them RECURRING, right? Useful distinction to make.

I've dealt with a bunch of people from here, all established members, without any problems at all. I'd be leery about buying from new members; but then, I'm leery about buying from new ebay sellers, too, and they've got a big and well-established feedback system. That leeriness didn't serve me at all in this most recent case - my problem person is (or was at the time) a PROLIFIC poster and well-respected in this community. I'd dealt with them in the past with no problems whatsoever. That didn't stop me getting screwed.

Neither did using Paypal - because I was Very Far Away, and international shipping times (with a little margin of error built in) and Paypal appeal times are not mutually compatible.

I dunno - I guess I'm arguing for a "let's all be adults" scenario. Trash talking is NOT OKAY and also, NOT REALLY FEEDBACK (I'm going to take a calm, reasoned statement of fact far more seriously as a warning than someone going off on some emotional diatribe). The first part, in particular, shouldn't really need to be said. I don't think criticism / feedback / whatever we want to call it needs to be emotionally charged in the way that it often is, and maybe it's interrupting that culture that needs to being focussed on - it's a larger problem.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 12:13 AM   #20
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I think if someone bought something from someone and got taken advantage of it makes sense to have some way to get the word out so other forum members don't get duped by the same person. If it stays private that just allows the behavior to continue and promotes more fraud.

I don't think bad transactions should be kept quiet.
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