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Old December 11th, 2010, 02:58 AM   #1
rufusprime99
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Question Got the Blues... DA45 cushion saga

... barrel and conical cushions, that is! Put all blue in my Magnum DA45. I started out with my Magnum with the standard purples, and it was great. Skated a few months. I few months ago I went will all yellow. That was very cool. More turning, but not too much. Last night, I went all blue. YIKES! TOO MUCH TURNING! I could feel the skate want to toss me forward as the skate could turn the front trucks so easily it kept trying to trip me. I quickly switched to backward skating, my comfort zone, and it was a little better. I was at my fast rink but I could tell right away that this super turney setup would have been better at my slow crowded rink. It called out for a slower than normal super turney style, not my moderately fast turney style. In fact I spent a LOT of time just backward slaloming on the infield line, as slaloming was what really felt the best on this setup. I was also able to do my fast on the beat slalom much more easily and did not have the boot looseness problems that I was having with my yellow cushions. I think I will go to my slow rink tonight where extra turnyness and slower speeds of the blues will be welcome. Oh, and I also think I know the REAL REASON why DocSk8, a blue cushion guy I believe, does not use toe stops. Right after I got my skates on at the rink, I went first to the water fountain for a drink and I got my inside wheel caught up on the toe stop. Luckily I did not fall. The trucks turned so far and so easily that toe stops were a no go.

So, my question to all you DA45'ers is, what cushions do you run and what was your tuning journey to find your favorite setup? And for those brave souls out there who are all blue, how long did it take to get used to them?
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Last edited by rufusprime99; December 17th, 2010 at 08:37 AM. Reason: snazzing up the title :)
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Old December 11th, 2010, 03:39 AM   #2
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Right now, blue barrels on top and white Khiros on the bottom. I've got a set of blue conicals, just no retainers. Someday I'll go buy washers. I probably should get some yellows to try the harder-top-cushion thing that gets recommended. I started out with all white Khiros. In for a penny, in for a pound, right?

Only some toe-stops work with Magnums and soft cushions ... I have the smallest Snyder ones and have only gotten wheels hung up on the stop once (I think) since I got them. I carved a whole bunch of nice grooves into a set of medium Snyders before that, though, while I was waiting for the little ones to come.
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Old December 11th, 2010, 03:55 AM   #3
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Default Why I don't run toe stops...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufusprime99 View Post
Oh, and I also think I know the REAL REASON why DocSk8, a blue cushion guy I believe, does not use toe stops.

True or Yellow barrels and blue cones... Depends on my mood and the floor..

Right after I got my skates on at the rink, I went first to the water fountain for a drink and I got my inside wheel caught up on the toe stop. Luckily I did not fall. The trucks turned so far and so easily that toe stops were a no go.

I was running sans stops for years before the DA45s happened... But that can be a problem with the Magnum DA45s... Cut away stops work decent and I have seen several modified versions of various stops...

So, my question to all you DA45'ers is, what cushions do you run and what was your tuning journey to find your favorite setup? And for those brave souls out there who are all blue, how long did it take to get used to them?
No time at all. I had been sk8ing on soft rubber since 2001. LA Skate used to sell some sweet soft bushings. Then they quit making them. I was starting to get into a bit of a panic until I found the white Khiros.... then SG brought out their cushions.
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Old December 11th, 2010, 04:47 AM   #4
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Started out on purples and felt wobbly, then I went to all yellows, felt a little better, then tried all blues and felt great. Took a couple minutes on the track to get used to.
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Old December 11th, 2010, 06:41 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by rufusprime99 View Post
Right after I got my skates on at the rink, I went first to the water fountain for a drink and I got my inside wheel caught up on the toe stop. Luckily I did not fall. The trucks turned so far and so easily that toe stops were a no go.
A similar thing happened to me. I used to rely on my toe stops heavily, and never thought I could ever do without them. When I went from a 210 wheelbase to a 190, I started tripping over my toe stops. I switched to the mini stoppers, but that wasn't cutting it either.

So, I bought a Giotto, and Doc mounted it up for me. The biggest one they make is a 185, so I wound up going to an even shorter wheelbase. That's when I learned two things. I can skate fine without the toe stops, and I hit the mark with the wheelbase. I still can't believe how dropping the extra 5mm made such a big difference, but it did. I've been on that wheelbase ever since.



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So, my question to all you DA45'ers is, what cushions do you run and what was your tuning journey to find your favorite setup? And for those brave souls out there who are all blue, how long did it take to get used to them?
I'm running purple uppers and blue lowers (conicals) on my Royals. This works best for me at Roller jam, which is a smaller more crowded rink. The extra maneuverability comes in real handy.
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Old December 11th, 2010, 07:58 PM   #6
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The blues were doing ok on my magnums, but opted for all white khiros for a little extra action. Set up loose the white khiros will put you on your face if you don't respect them.
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Old December 11th, 2010, 08:15 PM   #7
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When I first got my new skates from Doc, they had all blues. They were way too squirrely and my first day on the skates was a let-down because of it. Lots of kids there made it worse because I couldn't get up speed or glide to see how they felt. Then I tried blue cones/yellow barrels and still found them too loose. My legs just weren't ready for that, plus the Bonts were different to begin with, since they have no heel.

Now I'm on all yellows, and over the past 3 months, I've gradually loosened them and now they are at the loosest they can go without the trucks rattling. I think in a couple of sessions, I'll try blue cones/yellow barrels again. I've found that gradual change is much more gratifying and safer for me. My legs are adjusting, but I just had to give it time. I'd rather play it safe than be frustrated. I am thoroughly enjoying the skates now that they are doing what I expect of them!
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Old December 11th, 2010, 10:59 PM   #8
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I was running sans stops for years before the DA45s happened... But that can be a problem with the Magnum DA45s... Cut away stops work decent and I have seen several modified versions of various stops...
Ha ha. Well, so much for my career as a super sleuth.

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A similar thing happened to me. I used to rely on my toe stops heavily, and never thought I could ever do without them. When I went from a 210 wheelbase to a 190, I started tripping over my toe stops. I switched to the mini stoppers, but that wasn't cutting it either.


I did not even consider my normal large stops. A few months back I was having a problem with a wheel slipping on the hub. It seemed like just one wheel, and I rotated the wheels shortly after it started, so I did not exactly know where the slipping wheel was originally. I could not figure out why. It did eventually subside. Anyways, as I was taking the skate apart inspecting all things as I was swapping cushions, I noticed a gash in the underside of one of the stops. It had to be done by some wheel rub. I surmised that it must have occurred during some of my hard cutting and was the reason that I had some wheel/hub slippage, and not a problem with my Power Plus wheels, which brings my opinion of my wheels BACK up a notch. So, since my daughter was with her mom, I pirated her mini-stops to try them out for size. Instant rubbing. I think I am finally just going to suck it up and go stopless. I already have myself trained to use a T-start instead of using my standard toe-START. Now I just have to un-train myself from using the toe stop on some of my semi-spin stops and brush up on my non-toe stop stops. For some reason I have never got the tripping issue some folks have. Then again, I go mostly backwards.

I'm running purple uppers and blue lowers (conicals) on my Royals. This works best for me at Roller jam, which is a smaller more crowded rink. The extra maneuverability comes in real handy.
Purple and blue was what I was going to try. Just dipping my toe into the world of blue cushions. But I decided to dive right in. I will still check out a harder barrel blue cone at some point.


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Originally Posted by Kennedy View Post
The blues were doing ok on my magnums, but opted for all white khiros for a little extra action. Set up loose the white khiros will put you on your face if you don't respect them.
OK then, Kennedy.... Fast AND crazy.... check check.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannibelle Corpse View Post
Started out on purples and felt wobbly, then I went to all yellows, felt a little better, then tried all blues and felt great. Took a couple minutes on the track to get used to.
Wow. Fast adjustment. I started feeling a little better with the blues by the end of the night the first night. 1.5 hours in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Lips View Post
Right now, blue barrels on top and white Khiros on the bottom. I've got a set of blue conicals, just no retainers. Someday I'll go buy washers. I probably should get some yellows to try the harder-top-cushion thing that gets recommended. I started out with all white Khiros. In for a penny, in for a pound, right?
On my daughter's skates I have the blue conical with a normal retainer. This is of course in on a Hard Candy plate, less action, and my daughter is still south of 70 lbs, so again, not too much action going on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8fever View Post
When I first got my new skates from Doc, they had all blues. They were way too squirrely and my first day on the skates was a let-down because of it. Lots of kids there made it worse because I couldn't get up speed or glide to see how they felt. Then I tried blue cones/yellow barrels and still found them too loose. My legs just weren't ready for that, plus the Bonts were different to begin with, since they have no heel.
Wow. Blues to start. Must have been tough. I have had months on the plate going from purple to yellow, and blue was a shock for me! Plus a new boot too. Lotta changes. But I see from your profile that you are a gal and depending on weight, blues might have seemed like an ok starting point. I am 6ft 195, so me starting purples was pretty logical. BTW how do you like your Bont, and how to your Strokers and the Anabolix compare? I have 8 round chunks of fresh urethane sitting next to my keyboard staring at me with that "are you gonna put hubs in us or what??" look.

So then, night 2.
Ok, slower floor, skater wise at least, and fairly crowded. Started skating and I was surprised that things felt pretty close to normal, and not squirrelly. I had only occasional feelings of too much turning but mostly had the feeling that this is cool. NICE! I am already getting used to having that extra bit of turning on tap. In fact it is confidence inspiring. I know how much turning I could do before, and have used it many a time for obstacle avoidance. Now I have just a bit more. Forward skating had pretty much no drama. My front-to-backs felt pretty good. (they felt TERRIBLE the first night, and did not do very many) I am gonna check my pivot pins as I think that they are a little short. Looking forward to a fairly normal skating night come Sunday night. I may throw the PeaBolix on for good measure!
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Old December 11th, 2010, 11:41 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by rufusprime99 View Post
On my daughter's skates I have the blue conical with a normal retainer. This is of course in on a Hard Candy plate, less action, and my daughter is still south of 70 lbs, so again, not too much action going on.
I'm 5'10", 170lb, so "not too much action" is not what I have. The white Khiros worked for me. I just tried the blue ones on advice from Doc, who thought a better cushion fit on the kingpin might solve a problem I was having. I don't have any spare retainers, of any size, for the blue conicals - they're built-in on the Khiros, so I didn't need 'em before. But the blue/white combo seems fine.

I say just go for it. I came onto the Magnums with all white Khiros from a bloody Reactor that turned like the University of Texas Private Army's* ancient baby-sized tank and it was painless.



*This is what I started calling UT Police after I found out their powers go far beyond what those of us who are from socialist paradise colonies are used to for campus security. Also after I found out they have a tank.
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Old December 12th, 2010, 12:27 AM   #10
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I'm 5'10", 170lb, so "not too much action" is not what I have. The white Khiros worked for me. I just tried the blue ones on advice from Doc, who thought a better cushion fit on the kingpin might solve a problem I was having. I don't have any spare retainers, of any size, for the blue conicals - they're built-in on the Khiros, so I didn't need 'em before. But the blue/white combo seems fine.

Oh yeah, you were the one popping the pivot pin out now and then weren't you. That is some serious lean angles.

I say just go for it. I came onto the Magnums with all white Khiros from a bloody Reactor that turned like the University of Texas Private Army's* ancient baby-sized tank and it was painless.

Yeah, I liked it better day 2. The setup will probably stay this way for a while. University Police got a TANK?? Cool. You know, it is a time honored tradition in U.S. Colleges for Grad Students to "inspire" undergrads to challenge themselves to executing "EPIC" pranks. (actually, I just made that up. Sounds credible though, don't it? ) What I am getting at is, wouldn't it be cool for some undergrads to steal the tank and leave it somewhere interesting. Just a thought.

*This is what I started calling UT Police after I found out their powers go far beyond what those of us who are from socialist paradise colonies are used to for campus security. Also after I found out they have a tank.
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Old December 12th, 2010, 12:38 AM   #11
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(in response to popping pivot pins)

Invader pivot pins have the pivot ball a little farther from the adjustment nut, keeping it from hitting your cups when you go hard, thus keeping your trucks from going out from under you.
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Old December 12th, 2010, 12:53 AM   #12
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(in response to popping pivot pins)

Invader pivot pins have the pivot ball a little farther from the adjustment nut, keeping it from hitting your cups when you go hard, thus keeping your trucks from going out from under you.
I compared my Magnum and Invader pivot pins and they seemed the same. (my eyes aren't too good though, and I did not take them out, just eyeballed them in place) Wasn't it a Snyder pivot pin that had the ball further from the hex nut?
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Old December 12th, 2010, 12:56 AM   #13
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I compared my Magnum and Invader pivot pins and they seemed the same. (my eyes aren't too good though, and I did not take them out, just eyeballed them in place) Wasn't it a Snyder pivot pin that had the ball further from the hex nut?
Yeah, they're the same trucks on all the SG thingos.
Mine was getting wrenched out in pileups, doesn't seem to come out just from leaning. Although I do lean over pretty hard. I haven't really had opportunity to test it out, as we have been doing outside practice since team drafts occurred & don't scrimmage much at those, so there are far fewer pileups.

I have new boots coming on Monday, to replace my broken-in/down 595s, and am thinking about what plates I want. No way it'll be an Invader, though. That long toe-stop space is a killer for my purposes.


Quote:
Yeah, I liked it better day 2. The setup will probably stay this way for a while. University Police got a TANK?? Cool. You know, it is a time honored tradition in U.S. Colleges for Grad Students to "inspire" undergrads to challenge themselves to executing "EPIC" pranks. (actually, I just made that up. Sounds credible though, don't it? ) What I am getting at is, wouldn't it be cool for some undergrads to steal the tank and leave it somewhere interesting. Just a thought.
You would be amazed by the extent to which I believe almost everything about the States and Texas. Big boss Vanilla man told me that there are optional and non-optional stop signs here and I believed him. I think the funniest stuff is the stuff I don't believe which turns out to be true, like that there are "designated free speech zones" on campus.

I don't think the tank is cool, though. They shouldn't need it.

Last edited by Hot Lips; December 12th, 2010 at 01:27 AM. Reason: 'Cos I mixed my words up
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Old December 12th, 2010, 01:17 AM   #14
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You would be amazed to the extent by which I believe almost everything about the States and Texas. Big boss Vanilla man told me that there are optional and non-optional stop signs here and I believed him. I think the funniest stuff is the stuff I don't believe which turns out to be true, like that there are "designated free speech zones" on campus.

I don't think the tank is cool, though. They shouldn't need it.
I think the tank is funny because to me, it is just SO Texas of them. (No offense to any Texans, now. I am a life long Californian and us folks in different states have all of our jokes and pre-conceived notions about other states. So, yeah, to ME, the tank is funny, though I can see how it might be a bit unnerving to an Aussie transplant.) The thing that struck me funny when I drove through Texas was merging onto a freeway. In Cali, a person ON the freeway is supposed to cut a car getting on the freeway a break. Let him on. Which to me makes sense. The person ON the freeway is already at speed. The person getting on is just getting up to speed. In Texas, at least when I drove through, the rule was the car getting on the freeway had to fish or cut bait. Or some will honk and make gestures at you for not getting out of their way. Is it still like that??
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Old December 12th, 2010, 01:21 AM   #15
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I think the tank is funny because to me, it is just SO Texas of them. (No offense to any Texans, now. I am a life long Californian and us folks in different states have all of our jokes and pre-conceived notions about other states. So, yeah, to ME, the tank is funny, though I can see how it might be a bit unnerving to an Aussie transplant.) The thing that struck me funny when I drove through Texas was merging onto a freeway. In Cali, a person ON the freeway is supposed to cut a car getting on the freeway a break. Let him on. Which to me makes sense. The person ON the freeway is already at speed. The person getting on is just getting up to speed. In Texas, at least when I drove through, the rule was the car getting on the freeway had to fish or cut bait. Or some will honk and make gestures at you for not getting out of their way. Is it still like that??
I dunno, I own a bike. I've only recently gotten comfortable enough with the cars being on the wrong side of the road to be able to sit in the front seat without holding onto something. Which is not to say that I'm not grateful when people drive me places. Just a little terrified.

But that's Australian-style freeway driving. I feel for the kids learning to drive in the states where they're speed-limited to 80 until they're off their Ls. How the hell they're meant to learn to merge onto a freeway 30k/hr below the prevaling speed of traffic is beyond me. I had a hard enough time doing it in my sister's underpowered Daewoo last time I drove and that at least got to 100.
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Old December 12th, 2010, 01:22 AM   #16
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Invader pivot pins have the pivot ball a little farther from the adjustment nut, keeping it from hitting your cups when you go hard, thus keeping your trucks from going out from under you.
Snyder Imperial pivots will sometimes buy you the additional clearance. The adjustment flats on those is a bit farther from the ball than the standard DA-45.
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Old December 12th, 2010, 04:46 AM   #17
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Wow. Blues to start. Must have been tough. I have had months on the plate going from purple to yellow, and blue was a shock for me! Plus a new boot too. Lotta changes. But I see from your profile that you are a gal and depending on weight, blues might have seemed like an ok starting point. I am 6ft 195, so me starting purples was pretty logical. BTW how do you like your Bont, and how to your Strokers and the Anabolix compare? I have 8 round chunks of fresh urethane sitting next to my keyboard staring at me with that "are you gonna put hubs in us or what??" look.
Yes, I'm very light... I was 95 lbs when Doc built my skates and I've lost a couple since. I need to eat more to keep up with the exercise I'm getting skating. So Doc thought the blues were right to start with. It was just too drastic of a change coming off my Tritons which were pretty stiff. If you loosen every couple of sessions, I think that gives your muscles time to re-adjust without making the skate session dissappointing. I'm also practicing backward one-foot glides and I've found even the slightest adjustment in trucks changes everything for that. It's more demanding on the leg muscles to keep a straight line, but I think the looser action and softer cushions force your muscles to get where they should be. Just take it a little bit at a time.

The Bonts are very comfortable, although I have to use Ezeefit Booties to keep the ankle area snug and prevent a blister on my inner arch. I think my boots may have been just a smidgen large (I got the standard fit, but now I think I might have done better with a quarter size smaller). The carbon sole works well with the skins plate.

Comparing the Strokers to the Anabolix wheels, it depends on the floor... On a good wood floor with medium traction, they are about the same considering roll/grip. On one floor I skate, which is a little slicker at this time, the Anabolix are slower. The Anabolix were great on a fresh sticky coat of roll-on. I think the duro is a few points lower than the 98.5a of the Strokers. So I usually skate the Strokers and go to the Anabolix when I have time to change wheels and just want to play around and do some hard speed laps. I prefer the slim Strokers for most of my shuffle skating time. Great all-around wheel for me.

BTW... I always let merging traffic onto the freeway. But I didn't learn to drive in TX. And I have encountered the jerks who think that the time to get into the right lane is when someone else is trying to merge into the same spot. Sometimes I wish I had a tank!
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Old December 12th, 2010, 05:41 AM   #18
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Yes, I'm very light... I was 95 lbs when Doc built my skates and I've lost a couple since. I need to eat more to keep up with the exercise I'm getting skating. So Doc thought the blues were right to start with. It was just too drastic of a change coming off my Tritons which were pretty stiff. If you loosen every couple of sessions, I think that gives your muscles time to re-adjust without making the skate session dissappointing. I'm also practicing backward one-foot glides and I've found even the slightest adjustment in trucks changes everything for that. It's more demanding on the leg muscles to keep a straight line, but I think the looser action and softer cushions force your muscles to get where they should be. Just take it a little bit at a time.

So I guess even though blue seemed good for your weight it still boils down to what your muscles are used to dealing with. Good to know. Since I take it on myself to make recommendations, for a light person I will say yellow with blue as an option.

The Bonts are very comfortable, although I have to use Ezeefit Booties to keep the ankle area snug and prevent a blister on my inner arch. I think my boots may have been just a smidgen large (I got the standard fit, but now I think I might have done better with a quarter size smaller). The carbon sole works well with the skins plate.

I will most likely go with the regular sole. Have you heat molded? My boot purchase is a month of so off, but I will definitely get the boot delivered here and heat mold before mounting. Don't know if I will mount it myself or not. TBD.

Comparing the Strokers to the Anabolix wheels, it depends on the floor... On a good wood floor with medium traction, they are about the same considering roll/grip. On one floor I skate, which is a little slicker at this time, the Anabolix are slower. The Anabolix were great on a fresh sticky coat of roll-on. I think the duro is a few points lower than the 98.5a of the Strokers. So I usually skate the Strokers and go to the Anabolix when I have time to change wheels and just want to play around and do some hard speed laps. I prefer the slim Strokers for most of my shuffle skating time. Great all-around wheel for me.

Both of my regular floors have good or very good grip. I have only skated my Power Plus wheels, which is supposed to be ok, but does not make most folks' top 3 list. (I actually got them because most folks said that they were reasonably good and I liked the purple color and slotted mag hub ) So, for me, the Anabolix could be the best wheel I have rolled so far.

BTW... I always let merging traffic onto the freeway. But I didn't learn to drive in TX. And I have encountered the jerks who think that the time to get into the right lane is when someone else is trying to merge into the same spot. Sometimes I wish I had a tank!
I was coming home one night after dropping off my daughter at her mom's, and I NEEDED to get over one lane or end up on the wrong freeway. Traffic was moving but the freeway was packed. There was just enough room for me to merge left. Actually, more like "tape measure" enough room. It would not have been a safe or nice lane change. So, I put on my blinker to let the guy to the left and behind know I am coming and let him loosen up a bit. INSTEAD he speeds up, takes up half the space that was there originally, actually brakes to position himself to block me and stares straight forward like he is unaware of me. My stink-o-meter is pegged at 100%, so I decide, with my blinker still blinking, I am merging left. So I start edging over to the left, slowly but surely. He starts leaning on his horn and his wife goes ballistic yelling at him, and I think she even hit him. So with a disgusted, defeated look, he let me in. I wonder how long he heard about THAT one? Anyways', nice that you will cut a driver a break. I always do. Well, not in this particular case.
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Old December 12th, 2010, 12:47 PM   #19
rsfaze
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running yellows on top and blue cones on the bottom. I'm not featherweight either
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Old December 12th, 2010, 02:36 PM   #20
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I've only recently gotten comfortable enough with the cars being on the wrong side of the road to be able to sit in the front seat without holding onto something.
Ha! The first time we drove over to France I nearly wet myself* going around a roundabout. In a right-hand drive car too!

And I'm on all yellows at the moment (Magnums). Might put some blue cones on in the future but I'm not there yet. Was running all blues on my Tritons before I moved on but the DA45's are so much more turney all blues might be a bit much atm.

*Figuratively speaking of course.
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