Salchow Advice and/or opinion(s)...anyone have some?

[Sk8terontherise]

Hello All
I'm learning my Salchow jump and I must say that I'm pretty good at landing it, not to mention the fact that I landed it {and landed it very clean, I must say} on my 2nd try, but i use my toe stop when doing this jump. I want and need to learn it w/o the toe stop b/c by using the toe stop, the jump is considered cheated right??? Anyways, i wanted to get some advice or maybe methods, techniques, etc... on doing this jump w/o the toe stop or should I keep using my toe stop until I "perfect" the jump?

[bobnva]

In days gone by you would just take the left toe stop out. That pretty much guarantees you don't use it.

It is considered cheated if it's off the toe-stop, but seem's nowadays that nobody seems to care or pay attention to it.

[ShortnBlondeSk8r]

I used to do that alot with double Salchow. You basically just have to put more pressure on your inside edge and less on the front of your skate.

[rwsz]

Originally Posted by Sk8terontherise

Hello All
I'm learning my Salchow jump and I must say that I'm pretty good at landing it, not to mention the fact that I landed it {and landed it very clean, I must say} on my 2nd try, but i use my toe stop when doing this jump. I want and need to learn it w/o the toe stop b/c by using the toe stop, the jump is considered cheated right??? Anyways, i wanted to get some advice or maybe methods, techniques, etc... on doing this jump w/o the toe stop or should I keep using my toe stop until I "perfect" the jump?

well if you really want to be different and do it right take out the toe stop and use the inner back edge a bit more, although if i remember its an inner forward edge takeoff. are you doing the single or double??? to be honest 90% of the skaters do the double and triple off the toe stop around the world. sounds like the rest of your technique is ok, but before you listen to any of us what does your coach say?????

[Sk8terontherise]

yes and that's a shame, but either way, I still need to learn how to do it the correct way just in case someone is paying attention lol. I just dont want to get used to using my toe stop all of the time b/c sometimes when I do my jumps, I chicken out lol and I need to let go of my fear of falling down b/c I have to realize that I'm going to fall, but i just havent come to that realization yet lol.

[bobnva]

Originally Posted by rwsz

well if you really want to be different and do it right take out the toe stop and use the inner back edge a bit more, although if i remember its an inner forward edge takeoff.

You were right at first Rick. It's a left inner back take off.

[rwsz]

Originally Posted by Sk8terontherise

yes and that's a shame, but either way, I still need to learn how to do it the correct way just in case someone is paying attention lol. I just dont want to get used to using my toe stop all of the time b/c sometimes when I do my jumps, I chicken out lol and I need to let go of my fear of falling down b/c I have to realize that I'm going to fall, but i just havent come to that realization yet lol.

good for you, falling is part of freestyle and if you dont fear it you will go faster and do better, remember speed in jumps helps you rotate and land and do better combos.

[Sk8terontherise]

Originally Posted by rwsz

well if you really want to be different and do it right take out the toe stop and use the inner back edge a bit more, although if i remember its an inner forward edge takeoff. are you doing the single or double??? to be honest 90% of the skaters do the double and triple off the toe stop around the world. sounds like the rest of your technique is ok, but before you listen to any of us what does your coach say?????

well for right now, since I'm just learning, Coach Ronnie doesnt have a problem with me using the toe stop when I do the jump, but since I have a pretty clean landing with the jump, I would like to learn it the correct way and not cheat the jump.

[Sk8terontherise]

Originally Posted by rwsz

good for you, falling is part of freestyle and if you dont fear it you will go faster and do better, remember speed in jumps helps you rotate and land and do better combos.

yes now i pick up speed. In the beginning, I didnt want put any type of speed into my jumps. Now since I'm getting over the fear of falling and adding speed, I've noticed that the take off on the jumps are much easier and you get better height.

[rwsz]

Originally Posted by Sk8terontherise

yes now i pick up speed. In the beginning, I didnt want put any type of speed into my jumps. Now since I'm getting over the fear of falling and adding speed, I've noticed that the take off or the jumps are much easier and you get better height.

yes it is and i checked out the salcow and its a lib takeoff, i wasnt sure seeing so many did it off the toe stop seemed like it could have been a lif takeoff instead, been awhile lol. suppose to be no takeoff or landing toe assisted. of course of you jump lefty its from the rib. good luck

[Sk8terontherise]

Originally Posted by rwsz

yes it is and i checked out the salcow and its a lib takeoff, i wasnt sure seeing so many did it off the toe stop seemed like it could have been a lif takeoff instead, been awhile lol. suppose to be no takeoff or landing toe assisted. of course of you jump lefty its from the rib. good luck

Thanks. I jump the correct way, so it would be a Left inner back I'm going to work on that jump all today at practice and during my lesson this evening.

[rwsz]

Originally Posted by Sk8terontherise

Thanks. I jump the correct way, so it would be a Left inner back I'm going to work on that jump all today at practice and during my lesson this evening.

cool good luck with it, let us know how it goes.

[snydertoestops]

I know that it is considered cheating, but when I was learing a sowcow, I broke my tail bone - and was paralized for a couple of minutes, I always slide off of my wheels the wrong way. Just doesn't work for me. I'm too scared w/o the small toestop assistance (I don't really jump off it, it's just a safety guard.) Same thing with the loop, I hate doing it because there is no toestop.

I started out w/o the toestop, for a while, but I can't even do a half w/o toestops because of that expirience.

[rwsz]

Originally Posted by snydertoestops

I know that it is considered cheating, but when I was learing a sowcow, I broke my tail bone - and was paralized for a couple of minutes, I always slide off of my wheels the wrong way. Just doesn't work for me. I'm too scared w/o the small toestop assistance (I don't really jump off it, it's just a safety guard.) Same thing with the loop, I hate doing it because there is no toestop.

I started out w/o the toestop, for a while, but I can't even do a half w/o toestops because of that expirience.

most skaters do the double and triple salcow off the toestop these days and the triple almost always i think, havent seen anybody do it without the toe stop assist. the triple loop these days is always done off the toe stop, use to see it from the edge years ago, although you didnt see many skaters doing it then, now most of the world class men do it and a couple of the ladies.

[rolaboi]

Originally Posted by rwsz

well if you really want to be different and do it right take out the toe stop and use the inner back edge a bit more, although if i remember its an inner forward edge takeoff. are you doing the single or double??? to be honest 90% of the skaters do the double and triple off the toe stop around the world. sounds like the rest of your technique is ok, but before you listen to any of us what does your coach say?????

Originally Posted by bobnva

You were right at first Rick. It's a left inner back take off.

Rick, i see where you are coming from .. it is in fact (as Bob pointed out) a LIB take off running edge, but as with the LIB upright spin, the pressure is forward on the foot to create the curve, thus thinking its a IF, but really the term 'back' is only in reference to the direction, not the pressure, and as the jump is rolling backwards, its a LIB.. if it were a LIF, they would be going forward like Figure 2 after the L foot push, and that would be rather awkward for a salchow (and funny!)..

as for use of the toe, if you're not using the toe stop, u may as well pack it in.. the technique for no toe stop has been gone for decades and its an old old debate.. let it go! there is nothing wrong about using the toe stop - in fact if you analyze the ice jump, u will see after the curve on the edge, the jump leavs from the PIC of the skate (toe).. thus why it should be done on roller. In my honest opinion, salchow is completely ugly if its done off the edge, with that horrendous big curve and over use of the freeleg to compensate.. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm very 70's... moving on!

i know many traditionalist we disagree, but other things more important should be addressed with more concern - like the mape take off and lack of spin changes/combinations/correct exits.. and balance in programs etc..

but thats another story!

[QuetzalPhoenix]

*edit*

[rolaboi]

Originally Posted by QuetzalPhoenix

Over here, in freestyle tests, if you take off on the toe-stop for a salchow it's a fail. No questions asked.

I think salchow should always take off from the skate as it's not categorised as a toe-assisted jump.

but how old is that system?? perhaps it needs to be updated b/c no one at a world meet does a salchow off the edge, its always the toe and seriously, you are so gonna be left behind the gate if you dont teach it off the toe from scratch... i dont think you'll find any country teaching it like that. i know it is still favored in many, especially by judges who have been around for ages and still go by 'the old book'.. but we are attempting to advance, not go backward.

it might be pure roller that way, but the adaptation from the ICE was incorrectly done on roller when it was in the transition period, u dont see any ice jump take off the edge without a toe assist, just as the salchow is done.. but anyways..

[Sk8terontherise]

Originally Posted by rolaboi

Rick, i see where you are coming from .. it is in fact (as Bob pointed out) a LIB take off running edge, but as with the LIB upright spin, the pressure is forward on the foot to create the curve, thus thinking its a IF, but really the term 'back' is only in reference to the direction, not the pressure, and as the jump is rolling backwards, its a LIB.. if it were a LIF, they would be going forward like Figure 2 after the L foot push, and that would be rather awkward for a salchow (and funny!)..

as for use of the toe, if you're not using the toe stop, u may as well pack it in.. the technique for no toe stop has been gone for decades and its an old old debate.. let it go! there is nothing wrong about using the toe stop - in fact if you analyze the ice jump, u will see after the curve on the edge, the jump leavs from the PIC of the skate (toe).. thus why it should be done on roller. In my honest opinion, salchow is completely ugly if its done off the edge, with that horrendous big curve and over use of the freeleg to compensate.. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm very 70's... moving on!

i know many traditionalist we disagree, but other things more important should be addressed with more concern - like the mape take off and lack of spin changes/combinations/correct exits.. and balance in programs etc..

but thats another story!

Well with that being said, Rolaboi, I will keep using my toe stop lol. Even my coach says that he doesn't agree with doing a salchow w/o the toe stop. He says that the jump should be done with a toe stop assist.

[bobnva]

Originally Posted by rolaboi

but how old is that system?? perhaps it needs to be updated b/c no one at a world meet does a salchow off the edge, its always the toe and seriously, you are so gonna be left behind the gate if you dont teach it off the toe from scratch...

I don't really mind it to much either way, but the governing bodies really need to either endorse it as the standard method and change the technical manuals, or deduct for doing it off the toe.

Sends a pretty bad message when all your technical manuals instruct you to do a jump a certain way but it's almost never done that way.

[rwsz]

Originally Posted by rolaboi

Rick, i see where you are coming from .. it is in fact (as Bob pointed out) a LIB take off running edge, but as with the LIB upright spin, the pressure is forward on the foot to create the curve, thus thinking its a IF, but really the term 'back' is only in reference to the direction, not the pressure, and as the jump is rolling backwards, its a LIB.. if it were a LIF, they would be going forward like Figure 2 after the L foot push, and that would be rather awkward for a salchow (and funny!)..

as for use of the toe, if you're not using the toe stop, u may as well pack it in.. the technique for no toe stop has been gone for decades and its an old old debate.. let it go! there is nothing wrong about using the toe stop - in fact if you analyze the ice jump, u will see after the curve on the edge, the jump leavs from the PIC of the skate (toe).. thus why it should be done on roller. In my honest opinion, salchow is completely ugly if its done off the edge, with that horrendous big curve and over use of the freeleg to compensate.. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm very 70's... moving on!

i know many traditionalist we disagree, but other things more important should be addressed with more concern - like the mape take off and lack of spin changes/combinations/correct exits.. and balance in programs etc..

but thats another story!

Jayson good points and i agree with you as usual, damn i like to disagree with you time to time lol. you did clarify what i was trying to say, thanks. the ice does do a lot more off deeper cheated edges and toe pics then people think.
i still like the mapes done with as little cheat as possible on the takeoff

hows the movie going, when are we going to see it?

Ciao