Down with spectator fees!

[LinP]

This year at Donora they are doing away with spectator fees! I know, I know, they are also raising the entry fees! My thoughts are that we want to get spectators in the building, and charging mom, dad, grandma, and aunt Susie, little brothers, too, keep people from coming to watch. For older skaters, who may not bring along the relatives, it may seem painful to pay more. However, I can imagine how it must feel to skate your competition with only the next flight of skaters watching! What do you competitors think about a little higher entry fee for the change to no spectator fee? Mommies, what do you think? Former skaters who would like to watch, what are your thoughts?

Lin P

[jkaplenk]

I've always thought that roller skating competition fees were quite reasonable. So it depends on how much the fees are going up. If it means doublling a fee that is decent then it might discourage some skaters. If it is a $5.00 then I think it wouldn't be a problem. Around here the admission fee is usually $5.00. I'm not sure that eliminating it would have an effect on relatives and friends of skaters who have a reason to attend. But it might encourage recreational skaters and non-skaters to come and see what it is about.

As a comparison, on ice Adult Nationals entry fees for two events costs$210.00. The local ice competitions tend to run about $100.00. For rollers, I think I usually pay $35.00 for a number of events. I pay a lump sum to my coach so I'm not sure about the breakdown. If it went to $40 I would still consider it a bargain.

Joe Kaplenk

Originally Posted by LinP

This year at Donora they are doing away with spectator fees! I know, I know, they are also raising the entry fees! My thoughts are that we want to get spectators in the building, and charging mom, dad, grandma, and aunt Susie, little brothers, too, keep people from coming to watch. For older skaters, who may not bring along the relatives, it may seem painful to pay more. However, I can imagine how it must feel to skate your competition with only the next flight of skaters watching! What do you competitors think about a little higher entry fee for the change to no spectator fee? Mommies, what do you think? Former skaters who would like to watch, what are your thoughts?

Lin P

[Mom2Skaters]

Originally Posted by LinP

This year at Donora they are doing away with spectator fees! I know, I know, they are also raising the entry fees! My thoughts are that we want to get spectators in the building, and charging mom, dad, grandma, and aunt Susie, little brothers, too, keep people from coming to watch. For older skaters, who may not bring along the relatives, it may seem painful to pay more. However, I can imagine how it must feel to skate your competition with only the next flight of skaters watching! What do you competitors think about a little higher entry fee for the change to no spectator fee? Mommies, what do you think? Former skaters who would like to watch, what are your thoughts?

Lin P

I think I pay $22 a competition for my daughter. That is for two events. It pretty much costs $3 for spectators. I don't think either one is breaking the bank. But I'd hate to pay a higher competition fee so that someone else can bring their extended family. If I were rich, I wouldn't care. lol

[angoraknitter]

I just wrote out two checks for entry fees. Two events $22, and then my arm was twisted to do another event $8 more.

When I take my entire immediate family we pay another ($12 for 1 adult, 3kids). My son spends the whole time at the video arcade (if we brought quarters the rink would make a killing on that boy). All the contest are long distance so it's a whole weekend and needs to be a family affair. I don't have the luxury of being able to shirk my parental duties and dump the kids somewhere for weekends at a time. Last time my husband was in the field so I invited my Mother-in-law to come up and help me keep an eye on the kids (so she donated her own travel expenses, and endured California Fires Traffic to help me out).

The first contest I went to they charged us a fee for our 1 year old. My husband was ticked off. This last time they didn't charge for the baby, but probably since they couldn't have seen her under the teller's window, where as the first time my husband was holding her so she was clearly visable.

My kids don't really get much out of it at their current age, and my husband already feels like he's doing me a big favor by coming. He doesn't feel he should have to pay to get in and suffer through a long day of skating contest..so it's really mox nix, the cost will have to come out of my pocket one way or the other. If they get rid of spectator's fees and still increase the entry fees, it sounds like I'll continue to pay $42 to enter the building either way. The only good part of increased entry fees vs. spectator's fees, is if there's no spec. fees, then that's one less thing I'll have to hear my husband or family members complain about, and the real cost stays hidden to them. So I suppose I'd vote for no spec. fees.

That part isn't the biggest deterent though, what's more important is the cost of food, gas, and lodging that makes the cost more of a dent in the budget.

[rolaboi]

This has been in place at our Nationals previously and other competitions, in many cases it has not made any difference. The cost to enter nationals though has been ridiculously high, like an extra $50 or something.. I think they should just let people in for free and not slug the skaters for it.. Its the cost of skating that drives the competitors away at the same time!

[Can't skate at all]

There are very few, if any, competitions in NZ with spectator fees. We seem to have done exactly what Angora described - built the fees into the competition fees. But it has been a recent change, perhaps only in place for the last 2-3 years. Prior to that, spectators paid entry.

If we had vast crowds, and they were crowds of "genuine" spectators, then entry fees would be fine. But to my eyes, mostly the viewing audience of any competition are somehow already connected with the sport - family members of competitors, other skaters waiting for their events, coaches etc. How many people are genuinely there just to watch? Not many I suspect.

Barriers to participation are bad for sports that already suffer from small numbers. If your skater, especially around that 14-year old stage, can't invite his/her friends to watch so they can understand what it is they do (and why they are hardly ever available for the movies, or late night events) because the friends can't get in to see the competition without paying a fee, then that can easily become another reason to quit. We don't need more reasons.

Supportive parents who are prepared to be there all day, watch, cheer, encourage, apply the ice-packs, feed the skaters and the judges and the other officials, do the hairstyles etc etc shouldn't have to pay to do it. After all, you can't exactly abandon an 8-yr old at her first comp, can you!

Paying didn't ever stop me going, but it did always irritate me. I'm much happier with the entry fees covering the full costs of the competition.

[rach_sk8]

I'm kind of on the fence for this one. I've talked about this with my partner several times, and we both tend to feel (in NZ anyway), we seem to go out of oiur way to make skating 'cheaper, more affordable' for everyone... and while I understand this concept as we are trying to make the sport accesible for 'everybody', I feel we also "cheapen" our image as a sport as well by doing this.
This is evident also in our rink and coaching fees. Compared to other dance sports, or ice figure skating... our guys get a complete bargain!! And yet our facitlites and coaches are equally as good as theirs! People get to the point in our sport that they EXPECT things to be almost given to them. I don't agree with it myself.
We went to a local ballroom dancing comp sometime ago... nothing big, just local. We paid something like $15 each to go in and watch for a few hours. While we did comment that this was kind of expensive, it didnt really deter us, and there were plenty pf people in there spectating.
As mentioned, NZ has done away with spectator fees for several years now, and I can say it's done nothing to increase spectator numbers that I've seen.
On the other hand, I don't think it's fair to keep stinging the skaters parents who watch the comps. But anytime my extended family have come to watch, they've expected to be charged something, and are quite astounded when we say it's free entry.
I guess I accepted long ago that skating (as with all sports I guess) is an expensive past time. And such is life!

[rwsz]

Originally Posted by LinP

This year at Donora they are doing away with spectator fees! I know, I know, they are also raising the entry fees! My thoughts are that we want to get spectators in the building, and charging mom, dad, grandma, and aunt Susie, little brothers, too, keep people from coming to watch. For older skaters, who may not bring along the relatives, it may seem painful to pay more. However, I can imagine how it must feel to skate your competition with only the next flight of skaters watching! What do you competitors think about a little higher entry fee for the change to no spectator fee? Mommies, what do you think? Former skaters who would like to watch, what are your thoughts?

Lin P

gee its good in one way but not in the other, seems like the skater or family pays for it anyhow. our spectator fees are around $6 here and the entry fees are from 15 to 20 depending on which meet. what did they charge in donora for an entry fee?

[MWehmeier]

Hi Folks... I took a break after watching a lot of the US National Figure Skating Championships online today (www.icenetwork.com) to this forum-- and read about Lin and every one's comments on spectator fees...

Here's my take on it.

Skaters perform. (Period) We crave an audience and their approval.

I'm not sure about any of you, but I always skated better, projected more, smiled more, pushed the envelope etc... and ultimately placed higher when there was an audience watching and cheering for my competition and me to do well. Other than skating for yourself, your coach and family-- there is something unique about skating with a large audience. An audience is electric and just their presence can and does give the skater the ability to perform better than they normally would.

The sport of Roller Figure Skating needs a large audiences everywhere and every time a competition is being skated. The audiences who are made up of family, friends, fans, alumni and interested from the general public are friends of the sport. We seriously need to cultivate the latter three to come and watch us skate. Ultimately their sustaining interest will feed our sport on several levels.

If eliminating the spectator fees or lowering them considerably will bring in more bodies-- a larger audience to watch us skate, GREAT! Break open the doors and invite everyone in to watch! The fees to skate competitively have been artificially low for years in comparison to other sports entry fees. The rink or venue should be able make up the loss of door revenue in concession stand and other things. Someone just needs to get creative.

Roller Figure Skating needs an audience-- especially here in the USA. I can not tell you the number of times people have asked me, "Does competitive skating still exist? Do people still roller skate?" Or how many ice skaters are clueless that roller skaters do nearly exactly the same things they do on ice. Add to all this-- it is completely dehumanizing to a skater and their families to invest heavily in this sport, only to find themselves performing at an event when there is absolutely no audience outside the families and other skaters/coaches who see them skate. This has got to change.

Lack of public support and attendance where a reasonable amount of grassroots PR would accomplish spreading the word far more than what is being done today. With little effort we can do more for ourselves and not always rely on the National Office to toot our own horns about the sport we are so vested. I'm personally open to suggestions on how to promote the sport.

Since I've returned to skating I have routinely noticed that the lack of an audience (aka butts in seats) is not only hitting roller figure skating, but our cousin ice figure skating as well. Tonight I watched the USFSA's US Nationals online to see the Junior Dance OSP and Junior Ladies Singles Final. I was shocked to see the Center in St. Paul so empty-- but then again, a couple months ago when I looked at ticket prices not many people can afford to attend more than one session at those prices. USFSA has had to obtain large scale corporate support such as Well's Fargo Bank, State Farm Insurance and other companies to underwrite the cost of the competitions.

I honestly wonder if USA Rollersports could and should do the same thing? Cooperative sponsorship should and would give us the national spotlight if played right to the media. But one thing... The QUALITY of the skaters has to be there too!

Your thoughts?
Mary Lu

[pastskater]

I realize the needs to be met with some form of payment, but to handle with such as: you pay more and you pay less would be a bit much. It seems the days of old were the skater had an entry fee for skating the contest. Those that came to watch would pay a fee. Normally the charges for the entry fee were moreover the paperwork and the fees needed to be met for the rink to pay for cost operate the contest being held. The spectator fee was always there for the seat and if need be in and out for their skater(s) or themselves.



so yep...lower fees and no taxes

[cindysk8s]

Reading, PA (where I live) hosted Skate America this past October. I can tell you that it was fairly empty most nights of the competition. Now, dont' get me wrong, there was many of us who had purchased the all event tickets but it was not cheap. For 2 all event passes it was almost $400 dollars. That gave us admission to all practice sessions and 2 1/2 days of competition.

Mary Lu- you're right. We need to do something to get the butts in seats. Roller just not have the recognition like ice does - and frankly, I dont think it ever will. People are always amazed when I tell them what I do. "Didn't think you could THAT on roller - or - I didn't know roller skating was still around"

I agree with eliminating the spectator fees - its gets expensive for a family to pay admission fees when only one or 2 family members skate.

So - to the ages old question - What can we do to increase awareness of the sport??

[rach_sk8]

Every skater (I'd imagine) loves an audience and performs better in front of one. Just not sure free entry for spectators is the answer.... from our experience down under anyway. We just had our Nationals where we did a flyer drop around the local area/community advertising it, stating it was free entry etc... and I personally didn't notice any difference in numbers of people attending. Granted- it was in the middle of most normal folks summer holidays... (dont get me started again on that one!)
If this is such a simple solution, I'd encourage everyone to abolish entry fees and hope the people come. Would like to hear if it has that effect over the other side of the world... doesn't seem to here sadly.

[Mom2Skaters]

Originally Posted by cindysk8s

So - to the ages old question - What can we do to increase awareness of the sport??

If the spelling bee and shooting pool can make it onto ESPN, so too could roller skating. Our regionals and Nationals are held during the summer when ice skating fans have no ice skating to watch. Someone should take advantage of that! Artistic Roller skating being an Olympic Event would probably help get fans into the seats, but I don't know if that would be good for us. I think it would make it more expensive.

[pacificsk8r]

Well my opinion on the subject is all over the place. Yes it is a wonderful thing to have people supporting you while you skate and urging you on. I think all the decline in general is that there is just so much out there to do now. Our senses have seen and done it all. Everyone just has their own thing going on. Maybe all of the hoopla on judging that took place in ice not so long ago, has made the inexperienced layperson watching an artistic sport skeptical as to a clear cut and precise winner. They don't get it or understand the reasoning behind it, vs. just enjoying the sport and forgetting about the "winner". At least I have heard that expressed to me by a couple of people that they don't watch because there is no definite winner as in some sports.

I don't think by not charging mom, dad or grandma and grandpa (spectators) would make much of a difference either way, as those people would pay and be there to watch their loved ones compete regardless. I agree that entry fees are still comparably low to other entry fees. For instance my husband like to take his car for an open track on a weekend event. That is not cheap to do. But, he doesn't have to put rhinestones on his driving suit either, that would really hike up the cost, haha.

Kidding aside, maybe a good movie that gets skating out in the open will spring things into action again? I talk to so many who still don't realize we skaters are capable of doing what the ice skaters can do (and more). So, somewhere we need some exposure. Maybe provide free tickets to one good show combining several rinks in an area to showcase all the talents in the area and peddle, peddle, peddle. If it's free, maybe radio/tv will host an ad? Invite grammer schools, pre-schools, etc. I'm just thinking here (doesn't happen often.

[Mom2Skaters]

Originally Posted by pacificsk8r

Kidding aside, maybe a good movie that gets skating out in the open will spring things into action again? I talk to so many who still don't realize we skaters are capable of doing what the ice skaters can do (and more). So, somewhere we need some exposure. Maybe provide free tickets to one good show combining several rinks in an area to showcase all the talents in the area and peddle, peddle, peddle. If it's free, maybe radio/tv will host an ad? Invite grammer schools, pre-schools, etc. I'm just thinking here (doesn't happen often.

Rollerskating with the stars? lol They did it with ice. But I think ice would be easier to learn.

[MWehmeier]

Originally Posted by Mom2Skaters

If the spelling bee and shooting pool can make it onto ESPN,...

... don't forget to add Poker and Cheerleading to that list.

Mary Lu

[Nostalgic]

Originally Posted by MWehmeier

... don't forget to add Poker and Cheerleading to that list.

Mary Lu

There's an obvious reason why cheerleading gets in there.

There used to be a number of celebrities who skated. If they came back, it might get enough publicity to help jump start rollerskating again. Cher was one that I remember hearing about. I don't remember who else.

[MWehmeier]

Originally Posted by cindysk8s

Reading, PA (where I live) hosted Skate America this past October. I can tell you that it was fairly empty most nights of the competition. Now, dont' get me wrong, there was many of us who had purchased the all event tickets but it was not cheap. For 2 all event passes it was almost $400 dollars. That gave us admission to all practice sessions and 2 1/2 days of competition.

Mary Lu- you're right. We need to do something to get the butts in seats. Roller just not have the recognition like ice does - and frankly, I dont think it ever will. People are always amazed when I tell them what I do. "Didn't think you could THAT on roller - or - I didn't know roller skating was still around"

I agree with eliminating the spectator fees - its gets expensive for a family to pay admission fees when only one or 2 family members skate.

So - to the ages old question - What can we do to increase awareness of the sport??

Cindy, If you want to see prices you should be here in LA. Next year World's 2009 are here. The prices are obscene. Add to it the hassle of the obscene parking fees around the Staples Center ($10-25 per day,) the metal detectors and all the standard BS of the Convention Center... and it will limit the number of people who come. I've planned to pick and choose a couple days and that's it.

Mary Lu

[MWehmeier]

Originally Posted by Nostalgic

There's an obvious reason why cheerleading gets in there..

Obvious? Really? Clue me in. I'm clueless on that one. We wear short skirts and jump around too. Okay I used to...

Originally Posted by Nostalgic

There used to be a number of celebrities who skated. If they came back, it might get enough publicity to help jump start rollerskating again. Cher was one that I remember hearing about. I don't remember who else

There are quite a few celeb's that skate here in LA. Most will be found hiding over at Flemming's rink in Northridge or Dominic's rink in Glendale if they come skating. Plus there is some disco-rexing type club down in Santa Monica--

Type in "celebrity roller skating" into Google and you'll see a ton of them. Now if we could snag Will Smith to do a PSA on roller skating as the Man in Black. We'd have a winner.

Then we have Jessica Simpson's MTV Video "A Public Affair" http://www.mtv.com/overdrive/?vid=97201

Mary Lu

[Nostalgic]

Originally Posted by MWehmeier

Obvious? Really? Clue me in. I'm clueless on that one. We wear short skirts and jump around too. Okay I used to...



There are quite a few celeb's that skate here in LA. Most will be found hiding over at Flemming's rink in Northridge or Dominic's rink in Glendale if they come skating. Plus there is some disco-rexing type club down in Santa Monica--

Type in "celebrity roller skating" into Google and you'll see a ton of them. Now if we could snag Will Smith to do a PSA on roller skating as the Man in Black. We'd have a winner.

Mary Lu

I knew that Northridge had celebrity connections years ago. A lot of television shows and movies did their skating sequences there. I didn't know that Glendale had any celebrity connections though. There used to be frequent mentions of Sherman Square in connection with some celebrities too. I don't even know if it is still there. That was one rink that I never went to.