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Speed Skating Forum Most of the discussions in this forum will be about inline speed skating but discussions about ice speed skating and quad roller speed skating are also welcome.

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Old February 19th, 2008, 10:56 PM   #1
unicycle1234
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Default It's all about lean

I was just looking at some photos I had, and I was very impressed with how much the lean at cornering reflects their level. Obviously the type of surface matter, but you can see novice/inline -> 60 deg, pro/inline -> 45 deg, and pro/ice -> <30 deg. I think how much you lean can be a measure of how good you are as an indoor skater. Check this out.

[Edit: couldn't get the photo to show, click the link below]

http://bp0.blogger.com/_O4HFx_zCrbY/...600-h/lean.JPG
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Old February 20th, 2008, 06:33 AM   #2
oompie
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start doing you physics

It's like a bike, the faster you go, the more 'lean' you need to go through the corner. That's first years fysics.

But it's a two-way thing. The better you are, the faster you go, the more you lean. On the other hand, the more you are (technical) abled to lean, the faster you CAN go and the more you need to lean.

Leaning is just a way to compensate for the centrifugal forces, the lower a skater can sit and the more he can lean, the faster he can gothrough the corner!
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Old February 20th, 2008, 11:34 AM   #3
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The lines you drew are biased. You need to standardize where you draw them: from wheel to head or perhaps from ground wheel to center of shoulders or maybe center of hips. Then you also have to standardize the point in the stroke and angle which the photo is taken. However, your conclusion is intuitive and probably right and no one would argue about the lean or knee bend of Apolo Anton Ohno. Oh No!

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Old February 20th, 2008, 01:24 PM   #4
j_nolesfan
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I agree with all of the above. I have a few critiques myself. First, the top pic has the girl in a different part of the cross and I say she's leaning a tad more than you're giving her credit for. Second, the middle pic, she's leaning a little less. Lastly, I doubt you'll see many people lean on wheels as far as the amazing AAO does on ice. It really is physics. Now, their degree of "squat" or the relative lowness that they're acheiving could be a good factor in the equation.

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Old February 20th, 2008, 11:42 PM   #5
unicycle1234
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About the line, I am trying to go from Toe-Knee-Nose as they are supposed to line up if you have the correct form. Yes the little girl may have leaned a bit more but I couldn't find a photo while she is on her left foot. I also find a photo of Joey Mantia on Luigino website, it looks like he is leaning as much as Apollo on ice. I've update the photo, click below:

http://bp0.blogger.com/_O4HFx_zCrbY/...600-h/lean.JPG

I think the ability to lean is a reflection of your technique (passing, etc), but not necessarily translate into speed. Let's say a fast skater can lean a lot, but a lean skater may not be the fastest.
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Old February 21st, 2008, 06:35 AM   #6
oompie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unicycle1234 View Post
About the line, I am trying to go from Toe-Knee-Nose as they are supposed to line up if you have the correct form. Yes the little girl may have leaned a bit more but I couldn't find a photo while she is on her left foot. I also find a photo of Joey Mantia on Luigino website, it looks like he is leaning as much as Apollo on ice. I've update the photo, click below:

http://bp0.blogger.com/_O4HFx_zCrbY/...600-h/lean.JPG

I think the ability to lean is a reflection of your technique (passing, etc), but not necessarily translate into speed. Let's say a fast skater can lean a lot, but a lean skater may not be the fastest.
and there comes the physics into play.

Lean a lot and don't go fast and you'll crash. Go fast and lean to less, and you'll crah as well.

However, the need to lean is caused by several factors such as body weight, length, posture, all combined in de beautifull paramater called Center of gravity (COG) (or center of mass). This is the point in the body were the centrifugal force applies. Long heavy skater need to lean more than short heavy skaters since there COG is a lot higher above the ground. Therefor the most superfast skaters are in fact quite small. Do the math ehhh physics

Toe-knee-nose isn't really the best line. The line should go from the point were the skater touches the ground (and let's hope for him that point is at his /her wheels) and through the center off gravity.

So in fact, proper cornering technique means nothing more/less than placing your COG in such a way that the line COG-wheels goes STRAIGHT through your supporting legg. Because then the skaters has maximum balance and can thus push harder (without having to struggle to stay on his wheels)

Last edited by oompie; February 21st, 2008 at 08:03 AM.
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Old February 21st, 2008, 12:40 PM   #7
Skatey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicycle12334
I think the ability to lean is a reflection of your technique (passing, etc), but not necessarily translate into speed. Let's say a fast skater can lean a lot, but a lean skater may not be the fastest.
The amount of lean you put into a corner is basically a function of how fast you're going. On ice, if you don't lean enough, you can't put enough force into the ice to hold a good line -- you go wide. If you lean too much, your skates will come out from under you. Basically, what oompie said.

A big difference between ice and inline is that you can generate more force into the ice at a "shallower" angle because your edge cuts into the ice, and the wide bottom of the blade pushes against a flat surface. On wheels, the only thing keeping your leg from sliding out is the friction between wheels and surface.

So, even though you post a nice picture of Mantia. . .that's probably extreme for an inliner, and even kids and elderly who do short track can get low enough to put their hands down on the ice.

But, "leaning" is not something done by posers trying to look fast. Lean and speed are two sides of the same coin.

Watch some short track 1500m on youTube. I say 1500m because they start out slow and get fasters and faster. They don't put a big lean in at the beginning just because they can.
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