Axel Technique Roller/Ice

[firefly]

Hoping that one of the higher level skaters who tried ice, (maybe Rolaboi), could tell me if they kept the arm lead in the 2axel or if they retooled it for the double arm swing, (normal ice technique). I do the single axel roller style with the arm lead on ice, but now attempting double. How did you do yours on ice? Could you do it rollerstyle? I tried to relearn it with the double arm swing but some habits are hard to break.

[fpinto]

i could write a complete book about your question..Oh wait, i already have..yes i wrote a book on jumping technique..to answer your question and i may upset many folks, but phsics is phsics...THE DOUBLE ARM THROW IS THE BEST WAY TO DO AN AXEL...it will be higher, prettier and more consistent...however very few roller coaches know how to teach it...some of the best double axels i have seen on roller used this technique...Randy Dayne, Keith King, Lex Kane, Kurt Anselmi, Daryl Bayles and many more...at the olympic training center in Colorado Springs many years ago {i will not mention the name involved} our world champion was practicing and an ice coach saw him, this ice coach had taught at lest 3 olympic gold medalists... he said if someone would show this skater a proper take off he could easily do a triple axel...when the ice coach left, 4 of the "top" roller pros made fun of his comment, saying that is just an ice thing

you can do fine double axel with the arm in front, but it could be higher and nicer with the double arm..Oh my book was "Maximum Hieght with Minimum Fight"

good luck and jump high

[MWehmeier]

And my guess on the ice coach has the initals CF.

Do I win a prize?

Mary Lu

[katie1808]

Hi,

I roller skated for around 10 years and then switched to ice for about 2 years and now I'm back to roller.

In all the years I roller skated I never really got a "comfortable" axel, however... When I moved to ice I was shown the 2 arm together take off and it became my best jump on ice! my favourite single.

Now I am back to roller, I just continued to use the ice technique and hooray, my roller axel is higher and more stable so I agree with fpinto, go with the double arm throw!

[rolaboi]

Originally Posted by fpinto

...THE DOUBLE ARM THROW IS THE BEST WAY TO DO AN AXEL...

of course it is personal preference.. however.. yes, the double arm is good.. when I skated roller, i lead with the left (as do many).. when I went to ice, i learnt and did the double axel with the double arm.. i was overwhelmed by this as it was very new to me and i began to adapt this into my coaching and started teaching it to the skaters I had (then) working on double axel (roller...) anyway, it worked beautifully with two skaters, one would/could not adapt at all.. it was a nightmare.. clearly it is not for everyone..

yes, agreed.. it is a great method.. but roller is different and not one way is THE RIGHT WAY, b/c there are ever changing techniques that improve and enhance peformance.. i like both.. however, i teach with the lead.. but more so with a 'mix' of both..

do not be overwhelmed by the double arm when you are attempting it (if you do) as it is a completely new sensation.. but do give it a try if you are considering it..

[fpinto]

You win the prize!!!

[firefly]

Thanks for all the info everyone! Since I am an old lady and will never go on to 3axel, I will probably keep the arm lead. (Since I'm comfortable with it and now I know it can be done that way.) It will be considered "bad technique" on ice, but then, most of my jumps are Doesn't matter, just skating for fun.
Can't imagine how any roller/inline skater could manage a takeoff with the double swing since there is no pick to hook. Wow!! Never seen it on roller. Will check out the names you mentioned too see if they are on YouTube.

[rwsz]

Originally Posted by rolaboi

of course it is personal preference.. however.. yes, the double arm is good.. when I skated roller, i lead with the left (as do many).. when I went to ice, i learnt and did the double axel with the double arm.. i was overwhelmed by this as it was very new to me and i began to adapt this into my coaching and started teaching it to the skaters I had (then) working on double axel (roller...) anyway, it worked beautifully with two skaters, one would/could not adapt at all.. it was a nightmare.. clearly it is not for everyone..

yes, agreed.. it is a great method.. but roller is different and not one way is THE RIGHT WAY, b/c there are ever changing techniques that improve and enhance peformance.. i like both.. however, i teach with the lead.. but more so with a 'mix' of both..

do not be overwhelmed by the double arm when you are attempting it (if you do) as it is a completely new sensation.. but do give it a try if you are considering it..

Jayson my son started doing a triple axel on roller in the late 90s and was only a quarter of a turn off on it and landed it on occasion, but not too often. he did it with the traditional left arm in front and bringing the back arm up and in, but also the lead arm went up and in too. he backed off of it because you had to learn the other triples first so we never got back to it. he use to do it a lot with Eric and Toby playing outs and horse and all lol, it was fun to watch anyhow.

funny thing is the axel was always his favorite jump although most dont like it as much because of the forward takeoff.

[MWehmeier]

Originally Posted by fpinto

You win the prize!!!

Gee Wiz! That one wasn't really a tough one to guess! I saw CF work John Curry's axel, so I guess I was at a slight advantage.

Let's go this direction now... How many skaters have you seen fight or actually block their take-offs because of poor edge fundamentals?

Mary Lu

[fpinto]

i can not count that high...to make the axel sail the way it is possible you must be over your skate on a comfortable edge, if anything is out of postition you are going to be fighting..many skaters do what i call leap and pray..but when they learn to be over their skate in the proper postion, much of the rest will fall into place {no pun intended}

[MWehmeier]

Originally Posted by rwsz

.... funny thing is the axel was always his favorite jump although most dont like it as much because of the forward takeoff.

Rick,

Your son is not alone. The Axel's always scared me. It's that fear factor you get of stepping out forward on that outside edge and throwing myself into mid-air feeling that got me. I never really got over it, but ended up with a pretty decent axel. I was always scared I'd smash my knee again.

Wierd I know.... but the Boeckl was my personal favorite.

Mary Lu

[rwsz]

Originally Posted by MWehmeier

Rick,

Your son is not alone. The Axel's always scared me. It's that fear factor you get of stepping out forward on that outside edge and throwing myself into mid-air feeling that got me. I never really got over it, but ended up with a pretty decent axel. I was always scared I'd smash my knee again.

Wierd I know.... but the Boeckl was my personal favorite.

Mary Lu

yeah Derick loved the axel but he was never a normal skater lol. the boeckl was your favorite, like we said before only a few skaters still do them. its so easy to press the axel edge wrong and slip off of it.

[firefly]

Yup, slipping off edge...not square to jump...too much edge.....not enough edge....not jumping through....not jumping up....not jumping up AND through.....Oops! Waxel ...GURRRRRRR!!! Amazed anyone has ever landed this thing!!!
Jump. Driving. Crazy.

[pastskater]

Originally Posted by rwsz

Jayson my son started doing a triple axel on roller in the late 90s and was only a quarter of a turn off on it and landed it on occasion, but not too often. he did it with the traditional left arm in front and bringing the back arm up and in, but also the lead arm went up and in too. he backed off of it because you had to learn the other triples first so we never got back to it. he use to do it a lot with Eric and Toby playing outs and horse and all lol, it was fun to watch anyhow.

funny thing is the axel was always his favorite jump although most dont like it as much because of the forward takeoff.

Rick,

Is a triple axel in the Gold Tests for Freestyle? If not is there a Merit or above a Gold Medal for Freestyle or any other skating styles? If so, what is it then called?
Had to ask.

[bobnva]

Originally Posted by pastskater

Rick,

Is a triple axel in the Gold Tests for Freestyle? If not is there a Merit or above a Gold Medal for Freestyle or any other skating styles? If so, what is it then called?
Had to ask.

A triple jump of any kind is not required for a Gold Medal in freeskating, nor a double axel.

Link to Requirements

#10 Gold Medal Freestyle
Minimum Grade: 60 Pasing Grade 150
Cost: $22.00

Jumps: Five (5)

Double Flip
Double Lutz
Double Loop
Double Axel
Double Lutz, Euler, Double Flip Combination
Axel, Loop, Double Loop Combination
Triple Mapes


Spins: Four (4)

Camel Combination Chg Camel (3 edges)
Camel Sit chg Camel Sit
Inverted Camel
Camel Jump Chg Camel jump Chg Sit
Heel Camel
Broken Ankle Camel
Footwork Minimum:
One (1) Sequence of secondary footwork
Three (3) Sequences of advanced

[pastskater]

Originally Posted by bobnva

A triple jump of any kind is not required for a Gold Medal in freeskating, nor a double axel.

Link to Requirements

#10 Gold Medal Freestyle
Minimum Grade: 60 Pasing Grade 150
Cost: $22.00

Jumps: Five (5)

Double Flip
Double Lutz
Double Loop
Double Axel
Double Lutz, Euler, Double Flip Combination
Axel, Loop, Double Loop Combination
Triple Mapes


Spins: Four (4)

Camel Combination Chg Camel (3 edges)
Camel Sit chg Camel Sit
Inverted Camel
Camel Jump Chg Camel jump Chg Sit
Heel Camel
Broken Ankle Camel
Footwork Minimum:
One (1) Sequence of secondary footwork
Three (3) Sequences of advanced

With this now being in some cases far from hard, why hasn't the Roller skating Federation moved on updating or forwarding in freestyle progression with technical merit(s)? Wow, thank you so much for the information Bobnva.

closer and closer my day of entering the rink and on the flooroh gawd

[kzarah]

The axel for me on Roller skates was never a problem. The axel on ice was always scarey for me. The double arm swing was not the issue. The jumping into the air with the free leg foreward was a challange. Also, on roller skates we always took off from a flat unlike ice skating where you take off on an edge or a skid.
Daniel

[rwsz]

Originally Posted by pastskater

Rick,

Is a triple axel in the Gold Tests for Freestyle? If not is there a Merit or above a Gold Medal for Freestyle or any other skating styles? If so, what is it then called?
Had to ask.

no 3 axel in gold medal tests, i dont even think you have to do a triple, but many other advanced things such as spins and footwork. i think an attempt at a 2axel might be required. no other tests higher then gold medal tests.

[rolaboi]

Originally Posted by rwsz

no 3 axel in gold medal tests, i dont even think you have to do a triple, but many other advanced things such as spins and footwork. i think an attempt at a 2axel might be required. no other tests higher then gold medal tests.

in our gold test you have to do double axel.. actually i think its an option instead of some other ludicrous combination or something... also a triple is in there, .. but they have loop holes where u can do combos instead to get the medal.. however, still a hard test..

[Wendy Hammond]

Just asked Edward, he uses double arm swing for double axel, but then he was ice originally. Do you have higher level tests for inline skaters? There is nothing in UK, all you need is to have axel, one double jump, sit spin etc and be 12 years or over to compete at championships